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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Lucilla,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The policy only needs to state *<b>what the staff should evaluate</b>* and thus, what members should do. The staff don’t need to evaluate the subject line, neither if it is actually an abuse or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The staff just need to evaluate the abuse mailbox works.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>In fact, there is *<b>no obligation</b>* for the victim to know what should he put in the subject line. You can just put “abuse case”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>In fact, if you operate a network, you will know that this is usually managed by a ticket system and the ticket system will replace the subject with a case number!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Please, let us know how you do in the networks that you operate, so we can understand your perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>And last, even if this has been responded several times: The proposal doesn’t tell AFRINIC that they should judge if it is an abuse or not!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>And yes, it is in the scope of AFRINIC to have the contacts accurate and to manage correctly the resources. Please read the legal documents!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 21/9/20 12:00, "lucilla fornaro" <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'>If you do not define or give an input of what abuse is, then how can you properly manage people's mailbox's subject line?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'>This is a crucial element, in my opinion. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'>More importantly, the proposal aims to supply AFRINIC of something that has nothing to do with its scopes. It is not up to AFRINIC to rule like a local court or local policy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'>As mentioned several times, asking AFRINIC to act as a central government goes against the main element that identifies the Internet: decentralization. The Internet is controlled by many, no one can own it, control it, or switch it off for everyone.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'> AFRINIC should not evaluate how I manage MY mailbox. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'>Lucilla <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Il giorno lun 21 set 2020 alle ore 14:33 Frank Habicht <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz" target="_blank">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>> ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Dear chairs,<br><br>On 21/09/2020 03:04, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE wrote:<br>> 6. Abuse Contact Update<br>> <br>> The proposal makes it mandatory for AFRINIC to include in each resource<br>> registration, a contact where network abuse from users of those<br>> resources will be reported. The proposal whois DB attribute (abuse-c)<br>> to be used to publish abuse public contact information. There’s also a<br>> process to ensure that the recipient must receive abuse report and that<br>> contacts are validated by AFRINIC regularly. However, there some<br>> opposition to the proposal there are:<br>> <br>> a. Staff analysis on how it affects legacy holder not<br>> conclusive (not sure why this should affect legacy holders)<br>> <br>> b. The proposal doesn’t state what will be the<br>> consequences of one member fails to comply. Why are we creating the<br>> abuse contact when there is no consequence for not providing the abuse<br>> contact<br>> <br>> c. Abuse contact email and issues with GDPR concerning<br>> the whois database<br>> <br>> d. No proper definition of the term Abuse<br>> <br>> e. To force members to reply to their abuse email is<br>> not in the scope of AFRINIC.<br>> <br>> Chairs Decision: No rough consensus<br><br>About d. "No proper definition of the term Abuse"<br>yes, this was mentioned several times by members opposing.<br>The proposal is about "abuse contacts". it is not about what "abuse" is.<br>there is no need for a definition of "abuse".<br>In my humble opinion the request for a definition of abuse is off-topic.<br><br>Question: if someone makes a proposal about lame DNS servers in domain<br>objects for Reverse-DNS, and I object arguing that a definition of RPKI<br>is needed - what would you do with this argument?<br>Q2: can arguments about a proposal be irrelevant to this proposal?<br>Q3: was that the case here? were arguments, that a definition for abuse<br> is required, irrelevant?<br><br>I request chairs' response to Q2 and Q3.<br><br><br>About e. "To force members to reply to their abuse email is not in the<br>scope of AFRINIC."<br>Yes, that was mentioned several times.<br>And also this is something the proposal does not do and does not attempt.<br>And all the comments about (d.) above apply.<br><br><br>If irrelevant objections are taken as valid arguments, please note that<br>I foresee that any future proposal can get rejected and the PDP will be<br>stuck.<br><br><br>About c. "Abuse contact email and issues with GDPR concerning the whois<br>database"<br>- I didn't see that on the mailing list, can you remind us, or was that<br>only during the live session?<br>- there are other contact information in whois. can staff confirm<br>whether AfriNIC are GDPR compliant?<br>- would that status change if abuse contacts would be added?<br><br><br>About b. "The proposal doesn’t state what will be the consequences of<br>one member fails to comply. Why are we creating the abuse contact when<br>there is no consequence for not providing the abuse contact"<br>- I can imagine that AfriNIC would include in their meeting<br>presentations information regarding how big (in measurable terms) this<br>problem is.<br>- from that the WG can discuss and decide if more actions are necessary.<br><br><br>About a. "Staff analysis on how it affects legacy holder not conclusive<br> (not sure why this should affect legacy holders)"<br>I didn't see that before, but as is tradition in my part of the world,<br>let me respond to the question with a question:<br>Are legacy holders subject to any for the PDWG's policies?<br><br><br>Thanks,<br>Frank<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD@afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <o:p></o:p></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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