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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Lucilla,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Please read the staff analysis.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>There is not point in asserting that “The main focus of the proposal is the abuse”, otherwise the staff will be the first complaining about that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The proposal is only to validate that there is afunctional way to report abuse. For that YOU DON’T NEED TO AGREE ON WHAT IS ABUSE AND WHAT IS NOT.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The staff would implement the proposal based on their view, not my view, not your view, not anyone else view. So, if the staff has already understood that they don’t need to “agree” on what is abuse, because that’s not the goal of the proposal, there is no point to accept as a valid objection that “abuse is not described”, because the policy is not, at all, asking the staff to validate if this is an abuse case, just that the abuse mailbox is in the data base and is responsible.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Again, abuse is NOT THE FOCUS. The focus is to make sure that there is a way to contact the resource holder for what any party believes is an abuse. Then they will be able to clear among them if it is really and abuse or not, and if they should do something or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Lack of a responsible abuse contact is a bad sign, especially for the resource holder!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Exactly the same as the whois has other contacts. The staff will never check if the purpose of that contact is “valid” or defined.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If you look at the actual CPM you will find that we already have an abuse contact policy “8.0 Abuse Contact Information”, however this policy is not mandatory, and as reported by the staff, only a very very very tiny portion of the members have it. We are just trying to fix it. That policy *<b>doesn’t</b>* define what is an abuse. Because this is not the objective of the proposal.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The main reason to have a RIR is to have a database with all the information and this must be accurate according to the RSA, bylaws, etc. If we don’t want to have accurate information for the abuse contact, then we shall go into a different direction, which is completely remove section 8 of the CPM.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If you look at the CPM there are dozens, if not hundreds, of terms that aren’t defined. Because those policies state if something is mandatory or not, NOT if the staff will verify “your understanding” of that term.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The Definitions section, in general, only define *<b>what is specific to AFRINIC</b>* not generic terms.<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Can you respond to this please: How do you handle abuse in the networks that you operate?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I think that response could provide some light to the reason you are misunderstanding it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 19/9/20 7:58, "lucilla fornaro" <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I have to disagree!<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The point is: the proposal does not define or give an indicator of what an abuse is. It is not functional to propose a policy if the elements present in it are not clear. The main focus of the proposal is the abuse, you said that the proposal makes sure that there is a valid response incase of an abuse report. BUT if people do not know what Afrinic means for abuse, the reports will be too many, often unreasonable, with a consequent waste of time and resources. In an ideal world, the proposal would be efficient the way it is. But we do not live in an ideal world. If we want it to be effective in the long run, it is necessary to make adjustments. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Lucilla <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Il giorno ven 18 set 2020 alle ore 21:43 Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On 18/09/2020 05:22, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><clip> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Again, this is not about defining what is abuse, this is among the parties. It is about making sure that there is a valid responsible contact in case of anyone needs to report what he considers an abuse. AFRINIC will not punish anyone that believes that his customer is not doing an abuse because in his country is not an abuse.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Exactly !<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Often people are misunderstanding the intention of the proposals and opposing them for reasons that are not written on them, which end up causing more confusion to other people.<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I support this proposal<br>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>El 18/9/20 9:59, "Lamiaa Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Hello Jordi,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>RFC2142 only defines a tiny portion of the network abuse. In real world operation, abuse consists of a much boarder range : DMCA(copy rights) claims, unsolicited emails , phishing websites , trade mark disputes etc. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>All those are legal issues that vary vastly across different juridictions in which no one but each of the juridiction’s judges can decide if it is an abuse or an illegal activity. Claiming that RFC2142 defines not even 1% of real world abuse is laughable.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Lamiaa<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Le jeu. 17 sept. 2020 à 15:51, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Hi Lamiaa,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>I’ve said this already. This policy doesn’t enforce abuse, it enforces that the abuse contact is there, and works.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Today AFRINIC is paying for the cost of the abuse handling because only a tiny fraction of the members has the abuse contacts in place.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>If the contacts in the RIR database aren’t actual and accurate, this is a clear violation of the RSA. So what is unacceptable is not having the contacts, not on the other way around.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Abuse is not defined by the RIRs, everybody knows it and this is the reason why NONE of the RIRs have re-defined it, because it is already stated in RFC2142. Can you justify why AFRINIC is different and need a definition?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>How you define it in the networks that you operate?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>El 17/9/20 10:49, "Lamiaa Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</span></a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Hello,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>I will have to agree with Lucilla on what she said and would like to add to it that :</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Firstly, Abuse enforcement is out of scope for RIRs.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Secondly, RIRs have no ability to define what is “abuse”, one abuse or even criminal activity could be entirely a legal operation in a different jurisdiction.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Finally, making a member forcefully reply to abuse contact Emails are a waste of resources and totally pointless, it is entirely up to the member to define what they think is acceptable in their network operation and how they react to it. AFRINIC has no mandate to force any member to reply to an “abuse”, since AFRINIC doesn’t even have the ability to identify what is considered an abuse.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Therefore the entire policy is out of scope for the RIR operation.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Lamiaa</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style='margin-left:125.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-size:11.5pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></pre></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>Le jeu. 17 sept. 2020 à 07:42, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><span style='border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>rpd@afrinic.net</span></a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Hi Lucilla,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Today we already have mnt-IRT, and everybody who operate networks understand what it is an abuse. If you operate networks you know that *<b>anything</b>* which is a non-authorized use of a network is an abuse.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>If you send spam, attack networks, try to intrude networks, etc., all those are abuse.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>What the policy ask is to make sure that in AFRINIC everybody has an abuse contact (today we have mnt-IRT, but is not mandatory, and as a results many African networks are filtered because lack of that – and consequently they do not respond to abuse cases -, which exist in all the other regions of the world).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Not having an abuse means more chances of legal actions, more cost, for both the victims and the ISPs. Having that means that you have more chances to resolve it in goodfaith.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>One of the *<b>most important</b>* Afrinic missions is to have accuracy on the database, which includes accuracy on the contacts. We are not fulfilling that in this situation.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Remember that *<b>all</b>* the other RIRs have already this kind of policy. This one is like the one that has been implemented in APNIC, and the accuracy of the contacts is now 87.5% as reported this month in the last APNIC meeting. In that report *<b>none</b>* of the members indicated any of the issues that you indicated (didn't happened as well in the other regions).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>You know who is interested in not having abuse contacts? Those that use their networks for doing abuse (hijacking, spam, DoS, intrusions, etc.).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Can you explain if the network that you operate has an abuse contact an how if one of your customes is trying to penetrate my network or do a DoS, I will be able to contact you and if you will do anything or just ignore it?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>El 17/9/20 2:21, "lucilla fornaro" <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</span></a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>I have some concerns about the “Abuse Contact Policy”.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>First of all, it does not offer a specific and regulated description of the term “abuse” and this opens the door to potentially bigger problems: a surplus of reports, discrimination/legal issues, and a waste of resources. Around the world, we can perceive what abuse is in very different ways.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>Afrinic is not entitled to force members to report abuses and most importantly, this proposal does not represent Afrinic’s purpose.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>I, therefore, oppose this policy.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>Lucilla <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><span style='border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"><span style='border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt'><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/" target="_blank"><span style='border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>http://www.theipv6company.com</span></a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><span style='border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"><span style='border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><br>**********************************************<br><br>IPv4 is over<br><br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/" target="_blank"><span style='border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>http://www.theipv6company.com</span></a><br><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br><br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br><br>RPD mailing list<br><br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><span style='border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a><br><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"><span style='border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm'>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Le jeu. 17 sept. 2020 à 15:49, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Lamiaa,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I’ve said this already. This policy doesn’t enforce abuse, it enforces that the abuse contact is there, and works.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Today AFRINIC is paying for the cost of the abuse handling because only a tiny fraction of the members has the abuse contacts in place.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>If the contacts in the RIR database aren’t actual and accurate, this is a clear violation of the RSA. So what is unacceptable is not having the contacts, not on the other way around.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Abuse is not defined by the RIRs, everybody knows it and this is the reason why NONE of the RIRs have re-defined it, because it is already stated in RFC2142. Can you justify why AFRINIC is different and need a definition?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>How you define it in the networks that you operate?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>El 17/9/20 10:49, "Lamiaa Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Hello,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>I will have to agree with Lucilla on what she said and would like to add to it that :</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Firstly, Abuse enforcement is out of scope for RIRs.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Secondly, RIRs have no ability to define what is “abuse”, one abuse or even criminal activity could be entirely a legal operation in a different jurisdiction.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Finally, making a member forcefully reply to abuse contact Emails are a waste of resources and totally pointless, it is entirely up to the member to define what they think is acceptable in their network operation and how they react to it. AFRINIC has no mandate to force any member to reply to an “abuse”, since AFRINIC doesn’t even have the ability to identify what is considered an abuse.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Therefore the entire policy is out of scope for the RIR operation.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Lamiaa</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:125.7pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style='margin-left:125.7pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-size:11.5pt;color:#151515'> </span><o:p></o:p></pre></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>Le jeu. 17 sept. 2020 à 07:42, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Lucilla,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Today we already have mnt-IRT, and everybody who operate networks understand what it is an abuse. If you operate networks you know that *<b>anything</b>* which is a non-authorized use of a network is an abuse.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>If you send spam, attack networks, try to intrude networks, etc., all those are abuse.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>What the policy ask is to make sure that in AFRINIC everybody has an abuse contact (today we have mnt-IRT, but is not mandatory, and as a results many African networks are filtered because lack of that – and consequently they do not respond to abuse cases -, which exist in all the other regions of the world).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Not having an abuse means more chances of legal actions, more cost, for both the victims and the ISPs. Having that means that you have more chances to resolve it in goodfaith.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>One of the *<b>most important</b>* Afrinic missions is to have accuracy on the database, which includes accuracy on the contacts. We are not fulfilling that in this situation.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Remember that *<b>all</b>* the other RIRs have already this kind of policy. This one is like the one that has been implemented in APNIC, and the accuracy of the contacts is now 87.5% as reported this month in the last APNIC meeting. In that report *<b>none</b>* of the members indicated any of the issues that you indicated (didn't happened as well in the other regions).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>You know who is interested in not having abuse contacts? Those that use their networks for doing abuse (hijacking, spam, DoS, intrusions, etc.).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Can you explain if the network that you operate has an abuse contact an how if one of your customes is trying to penetrate my network or do a DoS, I will be able to contact you and if you will do anything or just ignore it?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>El 17/9/20 2:21, "lucilla fornaro" <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" target="_blank">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>I have some concerns about the “Abuse Contact Policy”.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>First of all, it does not offer a specific and regulated description of the term “abuse” and this opens the door to potentially bigger problems: a surplus of reports, discrimination/legal issues, and a waste of resources. Around the world, we can perceive what abuse is in very different ways.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>Afrinic is not entitled to force members to report abuses and most importantly, this proposal does not represent Afrinic’s purpose.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>I, therefore, oppose this policy.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>Lucilla <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt'><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><br>**********************************************<br><br><br>IPv4 is over<br><br><br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><br><br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br><br><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br><br><br><br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><br><br>_______________________________________________<br><br>RPD mailing list<br><br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Lamiaa CHNAYTI</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD@afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <o:p></o:p></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
IPv4 is over<br>
Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
http://www.theipv6company.com<br>
The IPv6 Company<br>
<br>
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br>
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