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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Lamiaa,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I’ve said this already. This policy doesn’t enforce abuse, it enforces that the abuse contact is there, and works.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Today AFRINIC is paying for the cost of the abuse handling because only a tiny fraction of the members has the abuse contacts in place.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If the contacts in the RIR database aren’t actual and accurate, this is a clear violation of the RSA. So what is unacceptable is not having the contacts, not on the other way around.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Abuse is not defined by the RIRs, everybody knows it and this is the reason why NONE of the RIRs have re-defined it, because it is already stated in RFC2142. Can you justify why AFRINIC is different and need a definition?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>How you define it in the networks that you operate?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 17/9/20 10:49, "Lamiaa Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Hello,</span><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#151515'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>I will have to agree with Lucilla on what she said and would like to add to it that :</span><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#151515'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Firstly, Abuse enforcement is out of scope for RIRs.</span><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#151515'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Secondly, RIRs have no ability to define what is “abuse”, one abuse or even criminal activity could be entirely a legal operation in a different jurisdiction.</span><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#151515'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Finally, making a member forcefully reply to abuse contact Emails are a waste of resources and totally pointless, it is entirely up to the member to define what they think is acceptable in their network operation and how they react to it. AFRINIC has no mandate to force any member to reply to an “abuse”, since AFRINIC doesn’t even have the ability to identify what is considered an abuse.</span><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#151515'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Therefore the entire policy is out of scope for the RIR operation.</span><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#151515'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Regards,</span><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#151515'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#151515'>Lamiaa</span><span style='font-family:"Courier New";color:#151515'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:54.9pt;line-height:106%;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><pre style='margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"inherit",serif;color:#151515'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Le jeu. 17 sept. 2020 à 07:42, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Lucilla,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Today we already have mnt-IRT, and everybody who operate networks understand what it is an abuse. If you operate networks you know that *<b>anything</b>* which is a non-authorized use of a network is an abuse.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>If you send spam, attack networks, try to intrude networks, etc., all those are abuse.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>What the policy ask is to make sure that in AFRINIC everybody has an abuse contact (today we have mnt-IRT, but is not mandatory, and as a results many African networks are filtered because lack of that – and consequently they do not respond to abuse cases -, which exist in all the other regions of the world).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Not having an abuse means more chances of legal actions, more cost, for both the victims and the ISPs. Having that means that you have more chances to resolve it in goodfaith.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>One of the *<b>most important</b>* Afrinic missions is to have accuracy on the database, which includes accuracy on the contacts. We are not fulfilling that in this situation.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Remember that *<b>all</b>* the other RIRs have already this kind of policy. This one is like the one that has been implemented in APNIC, and the accuracy of the contacts is now 87.5% as reported this month in the last APNIC meeting. In that report *<b>none</b>* of the members indicated any of the issues that you indicated (didn't happened as well in the other regions).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>You know who is interested in not having abuse contacts? Those that use their networks for doing abuse (hijacking, spam, DoS, intrusions, etc.).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Can you explain if the network that you operate has an abuse contact an how if one of your customes is trying to penetrate my network or do a DoS, I will be able to contact you and if you will do anything or just ignore it?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>El 17/9/20 2:21, "lucilla fornaro" <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" target="_blank">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>I have some concerns about the “Abuse Contact Policy”.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>First of all, it does not offer a specific and regulated description of the term “abuse” and this opens the door to potentially bigger problems: a surplus of reports, discrimination/legal issues, and a waste of resources. Around the world, we can perceive what abuse is in very different ways.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Afrinic is not entitled to force members to report abuses and most importantly, this proposal does not represent Afrinic’s purpose.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>I, therefore, oppose this policy.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Lucilla <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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