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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>By the way, can you tell me, in the networks that you operate, if you repeat some monitoring or other aspects, anything that you repeat periodically just dozens or hundreds of times, do you automate it and set alerts to notify any issue?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 17/9/20 10:01, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD" <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Marius,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The policy doesn’t change how AFRINIC operate the services, just improve them, and what is more important, tell AFRINIC, “you should automate it as much as possible” and it is in the benefit of the community (which is what is the PDP is for) because it provides automated reports and notifications.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>To prove that your point is not necessarily correct, some folks had the opinion, when I presented the M&A proposal in the previous meeting, that it was an “operational” issue. Now you agree with me that it is a policy thing. It all depends on which lenses you look at it, but the point is that the board has the last word. If the board believes it an operational issue, then they will bring back the proposal to the discussion or even suggest that we withdraw it.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Objecting with a personal opinion (“it is operational”) is not a valid objection. Otherwise, anyone can object to *<b>any</b>* policy proposal.</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Same with the cost, can you demonstarte what is the cost of doing manually this vs automating it? Just to prove your point. And again note that if the cost were an issue AFRINIC will tell us in the impact analysis “this is going to double our buget, we will need 1.000 more members, or increase the fees to pay for it”, which they didn’t told. They just talked about more resources to develop it (once), which needs to be compensated with the savings once implemented (forever!).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>And as I already explained, the implementation can be done step by step, not all the CPM in a single shoot, so the resources can be split across several months or even years.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Last but not least AFRINIC board has to ratify the policy. That’s why cost is not part of the PDP discussion, because the cost is membership, not community and the board can bring back the policy to discussion if the cost is not acceptable for the membership.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'>El 17/9/20 9:34, "Marius Andioc via RPD" <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'>Hi Frank,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'>Sorry I should have maybe translated it in both languages! Here is my point (Answering to previous messages) :<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'>I oppose this policy for two reasons. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'>Regarding the nature of this proposal, it's just an operation measure, a decision about how Afrinic operate and provides service. I believe this is not part of our prerogatives and we should focus on actual policies, not deal with Afrinic's services/products. Deciding whether we should transfer or not, how we should proceed with M&A or the election process are policies, this dashboard is a service, not part of internet governance. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'>Concerning the cost issue, I think contrary to what some have raised, it is very much part of the issue. Rather than saying that it's too costly or that it's absolute cost is too high, it's about a cost/benefits point of view that this policy is not worth it. Benefits are minor or at least not proven to be more than something close to 0 as Afrinic is already doing the job. If the policy was free of our constraint and we just had to tick a box on an app almost no one would oppose it (even if results are 0 it wouldn't cost any time, money, energy), but it's not the case. And opting for a policy that has a cost is also potentially depriving us of another one over time, it's just about avoiding waste in a policy that doesn't have much benefits. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'>I hope this clarify things? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'>Thank you for your question, I'll try to send my messages in both languages as possible! <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'>Have an excellent day, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'>Marius <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt'>Le 17 sept. 2020 14:25, Frank Habicht <geier@geier.ne.tz> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p style='margin-left:70.8pt'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:70.8pt'>If I understand right (Google translate...), then you say that<br>- it is not for this PDWG, but AfriNIC staff internally to decide<br>- given funds, time and practical possibility, you support this to be<br> done<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:70.8pt'>right?<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:70.8pt'>Thanks,<br>Frank<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:70.8pt'>On 17/09/2020 04:35, Marius Andioc via RPD wrote:<br>> Bonjour, <br>> <br>> Concernant le coût, je pense qu'au contraire celui-ci doit rentrer en<br>> ligne de compte. Le principe d'un choix, d'un trade off, est que nous<br>> aurons à choisir une politique plutôt qu'une autre (si ce n'est pas<br>> immédiat c'est un choix entre cette politique aujourd'hui et une autre<br>> demain). <br>> Les moyens d'AFRINIC ne sont pas illimités, nous avons tout intérêt à<br>> choisir avec prudence ce qui est réalisé. Ici plus que le coût de<br>> manière absolue, c'est le rapport coût/0 ou très peu de bénéfice qui<br>> m'évoque un simple gaspillage (de temps, de moyens et d'énergie, pas<br>> uniquement une question de coût chiffré). <br>> Pour résumer : le coût en lui même n'est pas tant un problème, mais le<br>> rapport coût / bénéfice en est un. Si cette politique ne nécessitait<br>> qu'une case à cocher dans une application pour se réaliser il n'y aurait<br>> pas ou peu d'opposition. <br>> Je souhaite enfin rajouter que les modalités opérationnelles et les<br>> services d'AFRINIC ne sont pas de notre ressort. Nous devons nous<br>> concentrer sur son rôle: celui de registre. Cette proposition n'est pas<br>> une politique mais une proposition opérationnelle et elle n'a donc pas<br>> grand chose à faire ici. <br>> <br>> Je vous souhaite une excellente journée, <br>> <br>> Marius Andioc <br>> <br>> Le 16 sept. 2020 22:58, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd@afrinic.net> a<br>> écrit :<br>> <br>> The RSA is an overall umbrella set by the members, and is not complete.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> The PDP is a higher-level set by the community, as complete as we wish.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> I think many participants still get confused with that. The PDP<br>> state what rules the community want to be followed, verified, etc.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> The PDP affects **all**, while the RSA only affects members.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> The community is on **top** of the membership. So, the community is<br>> free to agree on rules **over the RSA**, especially when the RSA is<br>> not sufficiently clear.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> And one more point that I was not able to respond in the chat. The<br>> PDP, and thus the policy proposals, can’t consider **cost** (I<br>> disagree that this will be a too high cost), because the cost is a<br>> matter of the membership. This is why the **board** must ratify a<br>> policy once it reaches consensus, because if the board believes that<br>> the cost is too high (vs the benefits), they can bring the proposal<br>> back to discussion to the community. So “cost” (especially if not<br>> demonstrated), can’t be accepted as a valid objection towards<br>> consensus. Otherwise, **any** member can block **any** proposal from<br>> the community **because of cost** (even if untrue)!<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Regards,<br>> <br>> Jordi<br>> <br>> @jordipalet<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> El 16/9/20 15:44, "Eucharia Maryann" <eucharianene@gmail.com<br>> <mailto:eucharianene@gmail.com>> escribió:<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> AFRINIC services are provided to members under the umbrella of the<br>> RSA mandate, which in turn ask for compliance with policies. <br>> <br>> Those policies are documented in the CPM, which is continuously<br>> updated by the PDP.<br>> <br>> If the above actually already exist in the RSA and in the CPM, then<br>> what's the essence of this policy or is it that we love repeating<br>> same thing all the time or we are just interested in having so many<br>> duplicated policies and rules.<br>> <br>> Please I cannot see the relevance of this policy. Thanks<br>> <br>> Simply Eucharia.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> On Sep 16, 2020 13:00, <rpd-request@afrinic.net<br>> <mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net>> wrote:<br>> <br>> Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>> rpd@afrinic.net <mailto:rpd@afrinic.net><br>> <br>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd<br>> <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd><br>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>> rpd-request@afrinic.net <mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net><br>> <br>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>> rpd-owner@afrinic.net <mailto:rpd-owner@afrinic.net><br>> <br>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>> than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."<br>> <br>> <br>> Today's Topics:<br>> <br>> 1. Re: Policy Compliance Dashboard - AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01<br>> (1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com>)<br>> <br>> <br>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 1<br>> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:23:15 +0000 (UTC)<br>> From: "1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com<br>> <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com>" <1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com<br>> <mailto:1mgirlieadezpet@gmail.com>><br>> To: "gabyginernetwork@gmail.com<br>> <mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com>" <gabyginernetwork@gmail.com<br>> <mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com>>, JORDI<br>> PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es<br>> <mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es>><br>> Cc: "rpd@afrinic.net <mailto:rpd@afrinic.net>" <rpd@afrinic.net<br>> <mailto:rpd@afrinic.net>><br>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Policy Compliance Dashboard -<br>> AFPUB-2020-GEN-001-DRAFT01<br>> Message-ID: <1385733950.2920672.1600255395989@mail.yahoo.com<br>> <mailto:1385733950.2920672.1600255395989@mail.yahoo.com>><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>> <br>> Dear all,This "POLICY COMPLIANCE DASHBOARD" seems to me a case<br>> of misplaced priorities. It will surely lead to complexities and<br>> unnecessary dissipation of energy and limited resources because<br>> AFRINIC? should already be keeping track of the policy<br>> violation.?In essence, I DO NOT see the purpose of such policy<br>> here. Therefore, I DO NOT SUPPORT it. Thank you.<br>> Adepetun OluwaseunSystem Analyst & ProgrammerEPETUKU<br>> TECHNOLOGIESAbuja, Nigeria<br>> <br>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android<br>> <br>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 5:24 PM, Gaby<br>> Giner<gabyginernetwork@gmail.com<br>> <mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com>> wrote: <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> RPD mailing list<br>> RPD@afrinic.net <mailto:RPD@afrinic.net><br>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd<br>> <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd><br>> <br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> URL:<br>> <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20200916/7e500232/attachment-0001.html<br>> <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20200916/7e500232/attachment-0001.html>><br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...<br>> Name: Untitled<br>> URL:<br>> <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20200916/7e500232/attachment-0001.ksh<br>> <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20200916/7e500232/attachment-0001.ksh>><br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> Subject: Digest Footer<br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> RPD mailing list<br>> RPD@afrinic.net <mailto:RPD@afrinic.net><br>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd<br>> <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd><br>> <br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> End of RPD Digest, Vol 168, Issue 58<br>> ************************************<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list<br>> RPD@afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd<br>> <br>> <br>> **********************************************<br>> IPv4 is over<br>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>> http://www.theipv6company.com<br>> The IPv6 Company<br>> <br>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged<br>> or confidential. 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