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<p>What is being said here doesn't make sense because if the desire
is to facilitate flow of addresses what this proposal does is to
facilitate flow of addresses OUT of AfriNic and not in.<br>
<br>
If whoever (a source entity in AfriNic) is giving up addresses
have just received them from AfriNic and doesn't have any minimal
time period it will facilitate for organizations to come to
Africa, request addresses from Afrinic, get them and send them out
of the region immediately.</p>
<p>This proposal is not well written and if the main point is to
allow Inter-RIR transfers there is much better written proposal in
discussion that can be supported which is "IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource
Transfers (Comprehensive Scope) Draft-4"</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/09/2020 04:00, lucilla fornaro
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKJg62LFxsaUXXSM7HOh6izAen0gUNA_1PYnCxQemEu=h+L0Yg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">Hello
Cathy,</span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
</p>
<p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">You
made a good observation. Afrinic only has 3% of world
space, which means that there is not a real reason to
worry. This transfer policy will finally put Afrinic in
the same position as the other RIRs. </span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">Section <a
href="http://5.7.3.3/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">5.7.3.3</a>: it is positive not
to have an upper limit regarding the amount of transfer
because this will facilitate the flow of addresses. And
this will make the difference once the IPv4 resources will
be depleted.</span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
</p>
<p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">Most
importantly, it is not up to Afrinic to offer a fraud
prevention service, and this policy does not in any way
encourage malicious or fraudulent activities. </span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
</span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
</span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">best
wishes,</span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
</span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">Lucilla </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno gio 17 set 2020 alle
ore 04:29 Cathie Jay <<a
href="mailto:cathie.kay89@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">cathie.kay89@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear
all,<br>
<br>
I fully support this policy which would allow a mutual
transfer of<br>
resources between two or several African regions. It is a
completely<br>
functional policy, which is primarily need-based. AFRINIC is
the only<br>
RIR without a transfer policy and has only 3% of the world
space.<br>
Therefore AFRINIC is gaining a lot more by adopting this
policy. I<br>
would also add, after following the several discussions on the
list,<br>
that this policy does not address internet fraud in any wat.
What is<br>
enhanced here is the free flow of transfers.<br>
<br>
All best wishes,<br>
<br>
Cathie<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 7:03 PM <a
href="mailto:dc@darwincosta.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">dc@darwincosta.com</a> <<a
href="mailto:dc@darwincosta.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">dc@darwincosta.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 15 Sep 2020, at 17:53, Daniel Yakmut via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> <br>
> The highlighted hurdles can hold up the policy reaching a
consensus on time to be relevant.<br>
><br>
> Hence I see the simplicity of the intra RIR transfer as
something that we can agree on and put to use as soon as
possible. The free flow market makes it attractive and self
controlling.<br>
><br>
> Self controlling? What do you mean by that?<br>
><br>
> I rather stick with Fernando’s last quote:<br>
><br>
> This talk about "free flow market" is something that only
benefits those willing to misuse IP space and profit from it
instead of using it for its main propose which is ensure
Internet can continuing developing in the region.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Simply,<br>
> Daniel<br>
><br>
><br>
> Darwin-.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sep 14, 2020 8:21 PM, "Mike Burns" <<a
href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hello,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Apologies for yet more input from outside the region.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> We don’t want registries deciding good and evil uses
for addresses, we want them accurately maintaining a list of
unique numbers and their registrants, per the ancient RFC2050.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> The future is just about here and will arrive when
AFRINIC reaches full exhaust. It’s time for the registries to
recognize that conservation, one of the original purposes of
the RIRs, is now performed automatically by the market. People
don’t waste valuable resources as a rule.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Now is the time for the RIRs to concentrate on their
only other purpose besides conservation, and that is accurate
registration. To meet the absolute requirement of unique
registration, it’s important that RIRs do not implement
policies that run counter to normal business activities like
transfers, lest those policies engender things like
unregistered leases or sales resulting in inaccurate
registrations.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> To bring this discussion back to the point, what is
the likelihood that an AFRINIC member will have the time to
justify and acquire addresses from AFRINIC, sell them to
another AFRINIC member while the free pool still exists, and
go back to the free pool for another allocation? Remember
there is still not inter-regional policy, so the only buyer
would be another AFRINIC member who would have to justify his
need in order to purchase addresses, and he could simply
utilize that same justification to get the addresses directly
from AFRINIC.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> And this policy would still have to reach consensus
and be implemented, making it that much farther away in time,
as the remaining pool shrinks.<br>
>><br>
>> I think it’s a moot point and resell limits as a rule
are an impediment to a free-flowing market. And I say that as
the original author of the 12 month time limit in ARIN policy.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> Mike Burns<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> From: Fernando Frediani <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 2:46 PM<br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Revised Proposal | Resource
Transfer Policy (Draft-2)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 14/09/2020 15:21, Ekaterina Kalugina wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> <clip><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> In addition, I would argue it is not up to the RIR to
decide who are “bad guys” and what are “malicious activities.”
It is my conviction (please do correct me if I am wrong), that
RIRs are merely registration entities and therefore cannot
pass judgment of whether the receiver of transfer is a “good”
or a “bad” guy. RIRs also should not have any interest for
which purpose the resources are used as long as “technical
need” is proven. Also, according to my knowledge of how the
international economy works – it doesn’t matter if it is
“good” or “bad” guys who are requesting the transfer of
resources, long as there is a free flow of resources, and the
commissions are being paid and taxed, it should only bolster
the economy in the region.<br>
>><br>
>> It is up to the RIR to oversee how resources are used
and if they are not used for the proposes they were originally
justified they should be recovered and re-assigned to other
organizations who commit to use them how they should be: to
make the Internet work, evolve and to get more people
connected to it.<br>
>> If organizations are just holding IP space in order
to make them worth more in order to sell them later and profit
from it then they are not using this scarce resource as
originally justified and they better be re-distributed to
those who really need them.We are talking about a scarce
shared owned resource and not a private properly which can be
produced any anytime.<br>
>><br>
>> If no justification would be necessary then it would
be unfair with those who need the IP space to make the
internet to work.<br>
>> Overall it is up to the RIR to determine the rules
and conditions these resources be justified which is done on
each regional policy forum. Furthermore each organization
signs an contract with the RIR agreeing to bind to these rules
in order to keep these resources.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> In any case, I think we need to abstract ourselves
from using moral categories and focus on the important issues,
which are, in my view, facilitating the economic development
of the African region and putting AFRINIC on equal ground with
other RIRs. As far as I can see, this policy does precisely
that. Therefore, I wholeheartedly support it.<br>
>><br>
>> Having an organization to justify the need of
resources doesn't block any economic development in the
region. It's actually the contrary.If people are allowed to
hold resources without any justification then they will end up
on the hands of those who can pay more and not on the hands of
those who really need them, making it more difficult for the
internet to progress in the region.<br>
>><br>
>> Fernando<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Warmest wishes,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Ekaterina Kay Kalugina<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 09:51 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via
RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> If we are asking all the organizations to justify the
need and to have some wait time for more resources, why we
want to have a different view on the transfers?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> This only helps bad guys that want to use the
resources for malicious activities and also makes brokers
getting more commissions.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Jordi<br>
>><br>
>> @jordipalet<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> El 14/9/20 5:30, "lucilla fornaro" <<a
href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I agree with your idea that basically corruption may
occur (like in any other policy and in any other RIR) but
there are instruments to avoid it and supervise.<br>
>><br>
>> I believe that by not supporting organizations that
need it due to possible dishonesty, we only generate damage
and a dangerous precedent.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Lucilla<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Il giorno lun 14 set 2020 alle ore 11:49 Fernando
Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
>><br>
>> This type of justification in my view is a
justification that only benefits brokers and those who are
willing to financially speculate from IP space instead of
using it for what they should be, and goes on the opposite
direction of other regions even after their respective
exhaustion phases.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Fernando<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 23:38 lucilla fornaro, <<a
href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I think that with this proposal AFRINIC would fully
be able to support any kind of organization in this uncertain
period. In fact, due to the pandemic situation it is clear
that unexpected problems may occur any time. AFRINIC should be
able to transfer resources even to those that gave up assigned
resources during the previous 12 months. Only this way it’s
possible to facilitate the flow of resources from those who
have them in excess ( and don’t use them) to those who need
them and cannot afford to wait 12 months.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> The issue concerning workload is relevant because as
the proposal supports, transfers won’t need approval from
Afrinic. This and the section 5.7.5 will help a lot to make
the overall working system more efficient.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I also think that “no upper limit regarding the
amount of transfers” (section 5.7.3.3) will make a difference
when IPv4 will be definitely depleted.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Lucilla<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Il giorno ven 11 set 2020 alle ore 02:53 Fernando
Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
>><br>
>> Releasing organizations from 12 months period doesn't
make any sense and goes in the opposite way of good sense. So
someone who gave up their just assigned resources transferring
to someone else. What is the sense of it ?<br>
>><br>
>> Smaller organizations can receive resources from
AfricNic directly in Phase 2, so why would they need to make
such transfers ? Also I don't think anyone is against allowing
transfers Intra and Inter-RIR at the current stage. That's not
the problem.<br>
>><br>
>> I cannot understand what type of "issue" it can cause
in terms of workload to the RIR and the time required for each
request ? What does one thing have to do with the other ? If a
request fulfill the minimal requirements there are no delays
or extra workload do process the request.<br>
>><br>
>> Regarding the "enrichment of its own financial pocket
by Allocation Fees" this is still possible for any
organizations who requests blocks according to Phase 2 so that
statement is not correct either.<br>
>><br>
>> There is a better well written proposal to allow
Inter-RIR transfers under discussion which is and I invite
others to support it instead which is "IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource
Transfers (Comprehensive Scope) Draft-4 ". This one fulfill
completely the need of Inter-RIR transfers for the region.<br>
>><br>
>> Regards<br>
>> Fernando<br>
>><br>
>> On 10/09/2020 11:31, lucilla fornaro wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hello everyone,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> My name is Lucilla, I graduated in Law and I am
currently attending a Master Degree in International Business.
I would like to give my contribution to the discussion.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> For <a href="http://5.7.3.2" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">5.7.3.2</a>: The
barrier of 12 months represents an issue for many entities
that need to face unexpected problems. AFRINIC needs to allow
a smoother and faster resource transfer to support both
smaller organizations’ growth, as well as enrich its own
financial pocket by the Allocation Fees that need to be
covered by entities that are not member yet.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> And for what concerns other RIR like LACNIC, its
policy is proving to create some issue. They, as well as the
other RIRs, are facing a heavy workload because of the
dilatation of time required for each request, that once
approved need to be included into another waiting list due to
quarantine reasons. These complications cannot be smoothly
managed by AFRINIC due its shortage of workforce. The section
5.7.3.2 would make the overall working system more efficient.
Furthermore, LACNIC entered phase 3 (back in 2017) of the IPv4
Exhaustion, meanwhile AFRINIC is facing a different situation.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I strongly support Section <a href="http://5.7.3.3"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">5.7.3.3</a>:
it is positive not to have an upper limit regarding the amount
of transfer because this will facilitate the flow of
addresses. IPv4 addresses within the region will soon be
depleted, transfer policy for IPv4 resources within and
outside the region is strongly needed.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Lucilla<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ________________________________<br>
>><br>
>> Da: Fernando Frediani <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Inviato: Thursday, September 10, 2020 1:49:44 PM<br>
>> A: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a> <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Oggetto: Re: [rpd] Revised Proposal | Resource
Transfer Policy (Draft-2)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I see that point 5.7.3.2 goes in the opposite way of
the obvious.<br>
>> If an organization gave up of its IP address space
because it doesn't have usage for it anymore, why would it be
allowed to receive more resources from AfriNic in short term ?<br>
>> Organizations receive IP space upon justification
expected to be used to serve their customers in a certain time
frame ahead. If sudden it realizes these addresses are not
necessary anymore and transfer them to some other organization
who really need them why would the source entity be allowed to
receive even further space ?<br>
>> It is not correct to say it drags Afrinic service
region backwards in comparison to other RIRs. LACNIC and ARIN
for example have similar policies in regards this topic.<br>
>><br>
>> 5.7.3.3. doesn't make sense either to be changed. The
current text is correct and has a proper reason to be like
this, otherwise it opens doors to fraud and to organizations
to receive IP space form Afrinic and immediately to transfer
to someone else who cannot receive them anymore under the
current exhaustion rules.<br>
>><br>
>> Therefore I oppose this proposal.<br>
>><br>
>> Fernando<br>
>><br>
>> On 09/09/2020 11:40, Ibeanusi Elvis wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hello Everyone,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> My Name is Ibeanusi Elvis. I am a Masters student of
Global Law, Politics and Peace and Conflict Studies at the
Tokyo University of Foreign Studies. Highly Interested in
Internet Governance and Policy Making specifically within the
AFRINIC service region.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> In regards to this proposal, I support the Proposed
Section 5.7.3.2 as source entities are eligible to receive
further IPv4 allocations or assignments from AFRINIC as long
as it complies with current policy because a 12 month
non-eligibility delay period after transfer approval
diminishes, hinders and is detrimental to the operational,
developmental and growth of businesses within the AFRINIC
region. Hence, dragging the African continent and AFRINIC
service region backwards in comparison with other RIRs.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Additionally, Section 5.7.3.2 and Section 5.7.5.3
ensures a swift communication between the transferring and
receiving RIRs to enhance a smooth transfer and receive of
allocations and assignments.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Best regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Ibeanusi Elvis .C.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>><br>
>> RPD mailing list<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>><br>
>> <a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> RPD mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
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href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________ RPD
mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> **********************************************<br>
>> IPv4 is over<br>
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
>> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
>> The IPv6 Company<br>
>><br>
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>><br>
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>><br>
>> <a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> RPD mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
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