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    <p>You must be joking with it or trying to make tricks and I am
      having a serious discussion.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>I already answered your question very clearly in the previous
      message very clearly. If you wish to discuss it in a serious way
      please go straight to the point.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Fernando</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 29/08/2020 14:21, Marcus K. G.
      Adomey wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:AM4PR0101MB2260E206A14BC8D832325BBEB9530@AM4PR0101MB2260.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com">
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        Hi Fernando,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Let me not get involve at this stage in the discussions
          about which model of election is good or bad for the PDPWG.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>You have not answered my question. I am posting it again.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I would like to find out whether you agree that the
          election by consent is used by working groups in RIPE region?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Please do justice to it. </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thanks</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Marcus</div>
        <br>
        <br>
      </div>
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        <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
            face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
            Fernando Frediani <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a><br>
            <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 29, 2020 2:29 PM<br>
            <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Policy Proposal: PDP Working Group
            (WG) Guidelines and Procedures</font>
          <div> </div>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Seems the
            authors are actually repeating the same arguments and
            points.<br>
            I am instead putting the many reasons election by consensus
            is not feasible, specially in this scenario we are going
            through currently.<br>
          </p>
          <p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">What doubt you
            have about this position regardless the RIR or region ?
            Perhaps you should read the messages again.</p>
          <p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
          </p>
          <p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Fernando<br>
          </p>
          <p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
          </p>
          <div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 29/08/2020 10:31, Marcus K.
            G. Adomey wrote:<br>
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              Hi Fernando,
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Thank you for your reaction but it appears you are
                not discussing but repeating yourself with no value add.
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>I would like to find out whether you agree that the
                election by consent is used by working groups in RIPE
                region?</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Thanks</div>
              <br>
              <br>
            </div>
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              font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
              <br>
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              font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
              Marcus</div>
            <div>
              <div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
                font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
                <br>
              </div>
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              <div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
                  style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
                  color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Fernando Frediani
                  <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                    href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a><br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 28, 2020 7:26 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                    href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>
                  <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                    href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Policy Proposal: PDP Working
                  Group (WG) Guidelines and Procedures</font>
                <div> </div>
              </div>
              <div class="x_BodyFragment"><font size="2"><span
                    style="font-size:11pt">
                    <div class="x_PlainText">Hello<br>
                      <br>
                      If we are having all this trouble to define the
                      next elections probably <br>
                      because there are multiple people interested in
                      the next elections, how <br>
                      can we dream about any consensus ?<br>
                      <br>
                      Consensus is for proposals, for a collaborative
                      improving process that <br>
                      may take months or even more than an year, not for
                      electing people.<br>
                      What is the fear to have a proper vote process ? 1
                      person 1 vote and the <br>
                      candidate with most votes wins and servers the
                      term. What can go wrong ?<br>
                      When one is elected with most votes and there are
                      no signals of fraud <br>
                      there is no room for disputes and discussions.<br>
                      <br>
                      Qualified people are people who effectively
                      participate in the <br>
                      construction of the process, who are truly part of
                      it and have <br>
                      commitment to it and not someone who is just
                      passing in front of the <br>
                      door once in a lifetime.<br>
                      <br>
                      Afrinic PDP doesn't even have yet the possibility
                      the Board to appoint <br>
                      interim Co-Chairs when necessary.<br>
                      <br>
                      Fernando<br>
                      <br>
                      On 28/08/2020 15:16, ALAIN AINA via RPD wrote:<br>
                      > Hello,<br>
                      ><br>
                      > Below are our  responses to  last comments
                      received on list on this proposal.<br>
                      ><br>
                      ><br>
                      > ###### Comment 1<br>
                      > Elections by consent is not for real world.<br>
                      > #######<br>
                      ><br>
                      > It does work for working groups chairs
                      selection in RIPE region<br>
                      ><br>
                      > ##### Comment 2<br>
                      > It's just something too utopic.<br>
                      > #######<br>
                      ><br>
                      > As  utopic as  how “rough consensus” appear
                      until you experiment it and cherish<br>
                      ><br>
                      > ###### Comment3<br>
                      > Election by vote where qualified people (with
                      minimal requirements) vote and the candidate with
                      the highest votes win, works in most places in the
                      world with less margin  for further disputes<br>
                      > ######<br>
                      ><br>
                      > there are many models of elections with
                      different ways of qualifying voters, determining
                      the winners, etc....<br>
                      > What you described is just one the them. Not
                      one fits all.<br>
                      ><br>
                      > Each  region adopts the best model for its
                      PDP and how chairs/lead for the PDP activities are
                      selected.<br>
                      > <a
href="https://www.apnic.net/community/participate/sigs/sig-guidelines/chair-elections/rir-comparison-table/"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.apnic.net/community/participate/sigs/sig-guidelines/chair-elections/rir-comparison-table/</a><br>
                      ><br>
                      > One can see for example that in the case of
                      LACNIC where, there is an electronic votes by
                      those subscribed to the policy mailing list, the
                      elections results “must” be ratified by consensus
                      among those present  at the PPM as judged by the
                      acting chairs. If results can’t be rectified,
                      board appoint an interim chair.<br>
                      ><br>
                      > The AFRINIC PDPWG adopted in the past  the
                      model of  votes by those physical present at the
                      PPM, until it showed its limit recently.<br>
                      ><br>
                      > Can you please elaborate on how the
                      “qualified people” should be selected in the
                      context the PDPWG for the online voting and how to
                      prevent abuse and further disputes?<br>
                      ><br>
                      ><br>
                      > HTH<br>
                      ><br>
                      > —Alain<br>
                      ><br>
                      ><br>
                      >
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      > RPD mailing list<br>
                      > <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                        href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                      > <a
                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                      <br>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      RPD mailing list<br>
                      <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                        href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                      <a
                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
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