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<p>You must be joking with it or trying to make tricks and I am
having a serious discussion.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I already answered your question very clearly in the previous
message very clearly. If you wish to discuss it in a serious way
please go straight to the point.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Fernando</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 29/08/2020 14:21, Marcus K. G.
Adomey wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:AM4PR0101MB2260E206A14BC8D832325BBEB9530@AM4PR0101MB2260.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com">
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Hi Fernando,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let me not get involve at this stage in the discussions
about which model of election is good or bad for the PDPWG.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You have not answered my question. I am posting it again.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would like to find out whether you agree that the
election by consent is used by working groups in RIPE region?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please do justice to it. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Marcus</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
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font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Fernando Frediani <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 29, 2020 2:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Policy Proposal: PDP Working Group
(WG) Guidelines and Procedures</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Seems the
authors are actually repeating the same arguments and
points.<br>
I am instead putting the many reasons election by consensus
is not feasible, specially in this scenario we are going
through currently.<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">What doubt you
have about this position regardless the RIR or region ?
Perhaps you should read the messages again.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Fernando<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 29/08/2020 10:31, Marcus K.
G. Adomey wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Fernando,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you for your reaction but it appears you are
not discussing but repeating yourself with no value add.
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would like to find out whether you agree that the
election by consent is used by working groups in RIPE
region?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Marcus</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Fernando Frediani
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 28, 2020 7:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Policy Proposal: PDP Working
Group (WG) Guidelines and Procedures</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="x_BodyFragment"><font size="2"><span
style="font-size:11pt">
<div class="x_PlainText">Hello<br>
<br>
If we are having all this trouble to define the
next elections probably <br>
because there are multiple people interested in
the next elections, how <br>
can we dream about any consensus ?<br>
<br>
Consensus is for proposals, for a collaborative
improving process that <br>
may take months or even more than an year, not for
electing people.<br>
What is the fear to have a proper vote process ? 1
person 1 vote and the <br>
candidate with most votes wins and servers the
term. What can go wrong ?<br>
When one is elected with most votes and there are
no signals of fraud <br>
there is no room for disputes and discussions.<br>
<br>
Qualified people are people who effectively
participate in the <br>
construction of the process, who are truly part of
it and have <br>
commitment to it and not someone who is just
passing in front of the <br>
door once in a lifetime.<br>
<br>
Afrinic PDP doesn't even have yet the possibility
the Board to appoint <br>
interim Co-Chairs when necessary.<br>
<br>
Fernando<br>
<br>
On 28/08/2020 15:16, ALAIN AINA via RPD wrote:<br>
> Hello,<br>
><br>
> Below are our responses to last comments
received on list on this proposal.<br>
><br>
><br>
> ###### Comment 1<br>
> Elections by consent is not for real world.<br>
> #######<br>
><br>
> It does work for working groups chairs
selection in RIPE region<br>
><br>
> ##### Comment 2<br>
> It's just something too utopic.<br>
> #######<br>
><br>
> As utopic as how “rough consensus” appear
until you experiment it and cherish<br>
><br>
> ###### Comment3<br>
> Election by vote where qualified people (with
minimal requirements) vote and the candidate with
the highest votes win, works in most places in the
world with less margin for further disputes<br>
> ######<br>
><br>
> there are many models of elections with
different ways of qualifying voters, determining
the winners, etc....<br>
> What you described is just one the them. Not
one fits all.<br>
><br>
> Each region adopts the best model for its
PDP and how chairs/lead for the PDP activities are
selected.<br>
> <a
href="https://www.apnic.net/community/participate/sigs/sig-guidelines/chair-elections/rir-comparison-table/"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.apnic.net/community/participate/sigs/sig-guidelines/chair-elections/rir-comparison-table/</a><br>
><br>
> One can see for example that in the case of
LACNIC where, there is an electronic votes by
those subscribed to the policy mailing list, the
elections results “must” be ratified by consensus
among those present at the PPM as judged by the
acting chairs. If results can’t be rectified,
board appoint an interim chair.<br>
><br>
> The AFRINIC PDPWG adopted in the past the
model of votes by those physical present at the
PPM, until it showed its limit recently.<br>
><br>
> Can you please elaborate on how the
“qualified people” should be selected in the
context the PDPWG for the online voting and how to
prevent abuse and further disputes?<br>
><br>
><br>
> HTH<br>
><br>
> —Alain<br>
><br>
><br>
>
_______________________________________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</div>
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