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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Owen,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>While I agree with your proposal and agree that if needed, we can use the 3.6 of the PDP (I suggested that a few days ago already), my only concern is that, as some people indicated, in Africa there are more difficulties to connect to Internet. I understand that in this situation it may be even difficult to arrange for universities to host virtual remote rooms.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>So, some people which was in the list when the original PPM was scheduled, and willing to vote, may have connectivity problems or difficulties to access Internet on that specific time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>That’s why I suggested providing a time frame of one week. This is what we do in LACNIC. You have one full week to vote (may be ending at some point during the virtual meeting).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Also, the vote verification (and I guess Fernando is talking about that), even if not done during the PPM, will be good if we do that 1-week voting. We do that as well in LACNIC.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>You cast your vote and get an email with your code. Nobody else knows your code, but when the voting is closed the list of all the casted votes and the codes is published. Nobody know who you voted for, but you can verify that your vote is there. This way you avoid any manipulation of the electronic voting.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I’m not sure if my explanation in English is good enough … in Spanish will be much shorter and easier.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 20/7/20 18:51, "Owen DeLong" <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Jul 20, 2020, at 05:11 , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>Hello Daniel<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>Thanks for putting a resume. So to add up I have the following:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>1 - Section 3.3 of the PDP it says: "<i>The PDWG Chairs are chosen by the AFRINIC community during the Public Policy Meeting and serve staggered two-year terms</i>". The Public Policy Meeting will be held online. It also says: "<i>Anyone present at the meeting, whether in person <b>or by remote participation</b>, may participate in the selection process for a temporary Chair.</i>"<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>2 - Who can be present at this meeting ? Only those present (therefore registered) to participate, not all registered in this email list.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>3 - The choosing of the e-voting system is a AfriNic staff task and there are different system already used for the very same proposes as for example the LACNIC's one. It must be a system that allow people to verify their vote was cast correctly and be fully auditable.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>This is an absurd claim. The standard (as you mention below) is a “raise of hands” vote. This mechanism even in person does not allow people to verify that their vote was cast correctly, nor is it fully auditable (indeed, it has no audit trail and is not at all audible).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Placing more stringent requirements than exist on the current system as an acceptance criteria for a system deployed urgently in a time of crisis makes little sense to me.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>4 - In order to either choose another Co-Chair or to extend the current one term there must be a vote with raise of hands. There is no other way out of the PDP this can be done.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>This statement ignores CPM section 3.6:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><h3 style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:35.4pt;box-sizing: border-box;caret-color: rgb(117, 117, 117)'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#757575;font-weight:normal'>3.6 Varying the Process<o:p></o:p></span></h3></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:3.75pt;margin-left:35.4pt;box-sizing: border-box;caret-color: rgb(117, 117, 117)'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#757575'>The process outlined in this document may vary in the case of an emergency. Variance is for use when a one-time waiving of some provision of this document is required.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:107.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#757575'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#757575'>The decision to vary the process is taken by a Working Group Chair.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:107.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#757575'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#757575'>There must be an explanation about why the variance is needed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:107.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#757575'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#757575'>The review period, including the Last Call, shall not be less than four weeks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:107.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#757575'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#757575'>If there is consensus, the policy is approved and it must be presented at the next Public Policy Meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Clearly this is the kind of exceptional circumstance in which some variance could be justified.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I still say that a (virtual) raising of hands using the mechanisms available in nearly every conferencing system capable of supporting<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>this meeting has the following advantages:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>1.<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Only meeting attendees may vote.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>2.<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Botting your meeting attendance would be reasonably difficult, so it would be difficult for a person to stuff the ballot box.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>3.<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>It does meet the literal requirements of the existing PDP.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>4.<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>If we place reasonable bounds on meeting registration, we can avoid the so-called “sleeper cell” effect that some have<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>put forth as a concern. (Personally, I think this is less likely in a virtual meeting anyway).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>5.<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>If we place reasonable bounds on meeting registration, we also manage to prevent (2) from being a concern.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>6.<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>By “reasonable bounds”, I mean pick a date certain in the past by which one must have been subscribed to RPD.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Each email subscribed to RPD is entitled to one corresponding meeting registration if they choose to. No subscribed<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>email, no registration for the meeting.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>7.<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>My suggestions for the date certain would be the first day of the originally scheduled in person AIS 2020 (May 31) or<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>the originally scheduled first day of the public policy meeting (June 8 IIRC).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>If anyone has a reason they don’t think this is viable, please express it. So far, I’ve seen lots of calls for other solutions, but this<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>seems to be the approach with the fewest drawbacks and which can easily be implemented in time.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Owen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'>Regards<br>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On 20/07/2020 03:06, Daniel Yakmut wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Dear All, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>We arrive at the airport and I will be turning the simple matter placed on the table into a circus. The simple matter was:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>1. We will have AIS 2020 online and in September.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>2. A Co-chair's tenure has already ended. So an electronic election is being proposed as part of the AIS 2020 Agenda. The question is, is this possible?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>3. It is a fact that the Co-chair is currently serving within an extended period. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>4. We now agree that the introduction of e-voting is inevitable, as demonstrated by the pandemic.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>However it is clear that<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>1. We are going to have an online meeting , as nobody has disagreed to that.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>2. There is a strong advocacy, for a process to include e-voting in the Region, but the timing is short. Therefore we need to commence the plan of creating an enabling atmosphere to integrate e-voting.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>3. We need to ratify the extended period for a co-chair tentatively for 12months. Which he has spent a month or so already.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>4. Ensure we have an acceptable e-voting system ready for the next date of election.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>5. Let agreed clearly on this simple issue and prepare for the coming meeting.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Simply<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Daniel<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Jul 19, 2020 11:20 PM, "Fernando Frediani" <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I have read this message and several questions come to mind as for example:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>- What basis was used to say "it was overwhelmingly" rejected ?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>- Who actuallty represents the "current" community to state it was "totally rejected" ?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>- Whats basis was used to say that it would not work in the region if that works in several other places and RIRs including, with auditable systems ?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>- Whats basis is used to say rhe community that voted for the current Co-Chair in Kampla has the same confidence in him and that he would win ? It seems more a personal wish than anything based on fact or logic.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>- Even in order to extend the current Co-Chair term the PDP MUST be followed and there are no other ways written there other than another vote. Otherwise how can this be done ?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Sun, 19 Jul 2020, 18:08 Emem William, <<a href="mailto:dwizard65@gmail.com" target="_blank">dwizard65@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Dear All, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I can recollect that a similar proposal was proposed as a policy and it was overwhelmingly rejected in Angola. The current community totally rejected the policy no one except the authors supported the idea because we know it can't work in this region. Using online voting now would be like passing the policy using the backdoor. Am sure Jordie would like this idea and hence his enthusiasm. However my candid opinion is that we can't do this. The most appropriate way forward is to allow the Co chair who has been doing a fantastic job to continue for another 12 months or till the next face to face meeting. The community that voted him in Kampala still have confidence in him. In any case even with an online election he would still likely win but I don't want polices to be passed through the back door. Therefore I think the most appropriate way for this has been suggested as an extension for the co-chair who's seat would have been contested.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Cheers.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'>Emem E. William<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD@afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <o:p></o:p></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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