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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/07/2020 13:39, Owen DeLong wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:CE966FE8-5868-492C-91B0-B1A6B36CE4BA@delong.com">
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            </div>
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        This is an absurd claim. The standard (as you mention below) is
        a “raise of hands” vote. This mechanism even in person does not
        allow people to verify that their vote was cast correctly, nor
        is it fully auditable (indeed, it has no audit trail and is not
        at all audible).</div>
      <div><br class="">
      </div>
      <div>Placing more stringent requirements than exist on the current
        system as an acceptance criteria for a system deployed urgently
        in a time of crisis makes little sense to me.</div>
    </blockquote>
    You are not making the things easier given the circumstances and all
    has been been discussed here.<br>
    What is being said is analogous to raise of hand and is also a
    indisputable way to eliminate most possible fraud that have been
    pointed.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:CE966FE8-5868-492C-91B0-B1A6B36CE4BA@delong.com">
      <div>
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">
            <div class="">
              <p class="">4 - In order to either choose another Co-Chair
                or to extend the current one term there must be a vote
                with raise of hands. There is no other way out of the
                PDP this can be done.<br class="">
              </p>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        This statement ignores CPM section 3.6:</div>
      <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding:
        0px;" class="">
        <div>
          <h3 style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: "Open
            Sans", sans-serif; font-weight: normal; line-height:
            1.1; color: rgb(117, 117, 117); margin-top: 0px;
            margin-bottom: 10px; font-size: 24px; caret-color: rgb(117,
            117, 117);" class="">3.6  Varying the Process</h3>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 5px;
            caret-color: rgb(117, 117, 117); color: rgb(117, 117, 117);
            font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class="">The
            process outlined in this document may vary in the case of an
            emergency. Variance is for use when a one-time waiving of
            some provision of this document is required.</p>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <div>
        <ol style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px;
          margin-bottom: 10px; caret-color: rgb(117, 117, 117); color:
          rgb(117, 117, 117); font-family: Roboto, sans-serif;
          font-size: 14px;" class="">
          <ol class="">
            <li style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">The decision to
              vary the process is taken by a Working Group Chair.</li>
            <li style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">There must be
              an explanation about why the variance is needed.</li>
            <li style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">The review
              period, including the Last Call, shall not be less than
              four weeks.</li>
            <li style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">If there is
              consensus, the policy is approved and it must be presented
              at the next Public Policy Meeting.</li>
          </ol>
        </ol>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        Clearly this is the kind of exceptional circumstance in which
        some variance could be justified.</div>
    </blockquote>
    Sorry I don't see 3.6 applying to this situation on *any* of points
    mentioned. This section is about how the policies discussion,
    review, last call, etc work  1) As I understand this decision is not
    up to the Chairs to take 2)Yes, we are working on the explanation,
    but who will give it ? Normally is whoever take the decision. 3)
    Nothing to do with elections 4) Nothing to do with the current
    scenario. There is no proper policy under discussion to be approved,
    only a discussion of what to do about the next elections.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:CE966FE8-5868-492C-91B0-B1A6B36CE4BA@delong.com">
      <div><br class="">
      </div>
      <div>I still say that a (virtual) raising of hands using the
        mechanisms available in nearly every conferencing system capable
        of supporting</div>
      <div>this meeting has the following advantages:</div>
      <div>q<br class="">
      </div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">        </span>1.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">  </span>Only
        meeting attendees may vote.</div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">        </span>2.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">  </span>Botting
        your meeting attendance would be reasonably difficult, so it
        would be difficult for a person to stuff the ballot box.</div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">        </span>3.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">  </span>It
        does meet the literal requirements of the existing PDP.</div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">        </span>4.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">  </span>If
        we place reasonable bounds on meeting registration, we can avoid
        the so-called “sleeper cell” effect that some have</div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">                </span>put
        forth as a concern. (Personally, I think this is less likely in
        a virtual meeting anyway).</div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">        </span>5.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">  </span>If
        we place reasonable bounds on meeting registration, we also
        manage to prevent (2) from being a concern.</div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">        </span>6.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">  </span>By
        “reasonable bounds”, I mean pick a date certain in the past by
        which one must have been subscribed to RPD.</div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">                </span>Each
        email subscribed to RPD is entitled to one corresponding meeting
        registration if they choose to. No subscribed</div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">                </span>email,
        no registration for the meeting.</div>
    </blockquote>
    I quiet like this idea, and that is exactly which is under
    discussion in one of the policies that should advance, but this is
    not backed in any part of PDP as far as I know as the moment. Who
    will determine what date is this ?<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:CE966FE8-5868-492C-91B0-B1A6B36CE4BA@delong.com">
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">        </span>7.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">  </span>My
        suggestions for the date certain would be the first day of the
        originally scheduled in person AIS 2020 (May 31) or</div>
      <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">                </span>the
        originally scheduled first day of the public policy meeting
        (June 8 IIRC).</div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>This would make sense if there was basis for it, but currently
      there is AFAIK.</p>
    <p>Fernando<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:CE966FE8-5868-492C-91B0-B1A6B36CE4BA@delong.com">
      <div><br class="">
      </div>
      <div>If anyone has a reason they don’t think this is viable,
        please express it. So far, I’ve seen lots of calls for other
        solutions, but this</div>
      <div>seems to be the approach with the fewest drawbacks and which
        can easily be implemented in time.</div>
      <div><br class="">
      </div>
      <div>Owen</div>
      <div><br class="">
      </div>
      <div>
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">
            <div class="">
              <p class=""> </p>
              <p class="">Regards<br class="">
                Fernando</p>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/07/2020 03:06, Daniel
                Yakmut wrote:<br class="">
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB3X6meTt=Pw8az5fmYeO6vaSiNOLL8pkG91YuBemSAjFWiwOw@mail.gmail.com"
                class="">
                <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
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                <div dir="auto" class="">Dear All,
                  <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">We arrive at the airport and
                    I will be turning the simple matter placed on the
                    table into a circus. The simple matter was:</div>
                  <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">1. We will have AIS 2020
                    online and in September.</div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">2. A Co-chair's  tenure has
                    already ended. So an electronic election is being
                    proposed as part of the AIS 2020 Agenda. The
                    question is, is this possible?</div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">3. It is a fact that the
                    Co-chair is currently serving within an extended
                    period. </div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">4. We now agree that the
                    introduction of e-voting is inevitable, as
                    demonstrated by the pandemic.</div>
                  <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">However it is clear that</div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">1. We are going to have an
                    online meeting , as nobody has disagreed to that.</div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">2. There is a strong
                    advocacy, for a process to include e-voting in the
                    Region, but the timing is short. Therefore we need
                    to commence the plan of creating an enabling
                    atmosphere to integrate e-voting.</div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">3. We need to ratify the
                    extended period for a co-chair tentatively for
                    12months. Which he has spent a month or so already.</div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">4. Ensure we have an
                    acceptable e-voting system ready for the next date
                    of election.</div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">5. Let agreed clearly on this
                    simple issue and prepare for the coming meeting.</div>
                  <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">Simply</div>
                  <div dir="auto" class="">Daniel</div>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
                  <div class="gmail_quote">On Jul 19, 2020 11:20 PM,
                    "Fernando Frediani" <<a
                      href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
                    wrote:<br type="attribution" class="">
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">
                        <div class="">I have read this message and
                          several questions come to mind as for example:</div>
                        <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div dir="auto" class="">- What basis was used
                          to say "it was overwhelmingly" rejected ?</div>
                        <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div dir="auto" class="">- Who actuallty
                          represents the "current" community to state it
                          was "totally rejected" ?</div>
                        <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div dir="auto" class="">- Whats basis was used
                          to say that it would not work in the region if
                          that works in several other places and RIRs
                          including, with auditable systems ?</div>
                        <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div dir="auto" class="">- Whats basis is used
                          to say rhe community that voted for the
                          current Co-Chair in Kampla has the same
                          confidence in him and that he would win ? It
                          seems more a personal wish than anything based
                          on fact or logic.</div>
                        <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div dir="auto" class="">- Even in order to
                          extend the current Co-Chair term the PDP MUST
                          be followed and there are no other ways
                          written there other than another vote.
                          Otherwise how can this be done ?</div>
                        <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div dir="auto" class="">Fernando</div>
                        <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          <div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 19
                              Jul 2020, 18:08 Emem William, <<a
                                href="mailto:dwizard65@gmail.com"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="">dwizard65@gmail.com</a>>
                              wrote:<br class="">
                            </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                              #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                              <div dir="auto" class="">
                                <div dir="auto" class="">Dear All, </div>
                                <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div dir="auto" class="">I can 
                                  recollect that a similar proposal was
                                  proposed as a policy and it was
                                  overwhelmingly rejected in Angola. The
                                  current community totally rejected the
                                  policy no one except the authors
                                  supported the idea because we know it
                                  can't work in this region. Using
                                  online voting now would be like
                                  passing the policy using the backdoor.
                                  Am sure Jordie would like this idea
                                  and hence his enthusiasm. However my
                                  candid opinion is that we can't do
                                  this. The most appropriate way forward
                                  is to allow the Co chair who has been
                                  doing a fantastic job to continue for
                                  another 12 months or till the next
                                  face to face meeting. The community
                                  that voted him in Kampala still have
                                  confidence in him. In any case even
                                  with an online election he would still
                                  likely win but I don't want polices to
                                  be passed through the back door.
                                  Therefore I think the most appropriate
                                  way for this has been suggested as an
                                  extension for the co-chair who's seat
                                  would have been contested.</div>
                                <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div dir="auto" class="">Cheers.</div>
                                <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"
                                  class="">Emem E. William<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                </div>
                              </div>
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                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
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