<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Hello Chevalier</span><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> I opposed this and any out of continent transfer policy at this time. I can revise my choice when ALL RIRs have finish their free pool. Otherwise, this policy can as well be call</span><br></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.8px">>> Eucharia: Why Should </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">we wait until the exhaustion phase of free pool? Why do we like to cure rather than to prevent (prevention they said, is better than cure)</span></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.8px">>>What will it cost Afrinic to embrace this proposal?</span></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.8px">>>Please outline the disadvantages/problems you think this policy will cause AFRINIC or you can also state clearly what you think is not explicitly explained so that the author of this policy can address them because all I know is that AFRINIC needs this policy.</span></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Thanks</span></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Simply Eucharia.</span></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 19:51 <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: AFRINIC Number Resources Transfer Policy (Chevalier du Borg)<br>
2. Re: AFRINIC Number Resources Transfer Policy (Chevalier du Borg)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 22:46:36 +0400<br>
From: Chevalier du Borg <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Daniel Yakmut <<a href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">yakmutd@googlemail.com</a>><br>
Cc: "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy" <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] AFRINIC Number Resources Transfer Policy<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAH5aO8csSQOtshzwhu3m4fvb8HxGkLirNYvzgtpz7yrHUrk5vA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CAH5aO8csSQOtshzwhu3m4fvb8HxGkLirNYvzgtpz7yrHUrk5vA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Le dim. 10 nov. 2019 ? 21:46, Daniel Yakmut <<a href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">yakmutd@googlemail.com</a>> a<br>
?crit :<br>
<br>
> In the whole of these mix, can't we have the transfer of the resource to<br>
> be temporal.<br>
><br>
> For example I have a pool of ipv4 resources that I am not utilising at<br>
> the moment, I should be able to lease it out for a period say 24months or<br>
> more. And if I have a need for the resource later, I should be able to<br>
> retrieve it back without going to the RIR for another allocation.<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
Because the resources were give to you base on NEED. If you no longer need<br>
it, return it to AfriNIC and when you need it, go back for me.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> Furthemore after the retrieval and.i am still short of my current needs i<br>
> can approach the RIR for new allocation I believe.<br>
><br>
> The point is, my earlier leased resource can be used anywhere in the<br>
> world, then how does all the current Inter RIR policies under discussion<br>
> takes care of this situation.<br>
><br>
> Simply<br>
> Daniel<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 5:54 PM Chevalier du Borg <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> I opposed this and any out of continent transfer policy at this time. I<br>
>> can revise my choice when ALL RIRs have finish their free pool. Otherwise,<br>
>> this policy can as well be call<br>
>><br>
>> "The AfriNIC Broker Support Policy"<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Le mer. 6 nov. 2019 ? 23:42, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">owen@delong.com</a>> a ?crit :<br>
>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Nov 6, 2019, at 07:00 , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> This proposal states in 5.7.3.2 that "the source entities are eligible<br>
>>> to receive further IPv4 allocations or assigments from AFRINIC". What is<br>
>>> the logic on that ?<br>
>>> If a organization is transferring its resources it means it doesn't need<br>
>>> them anymore and therefore it doesn't make sense they can receive any<br>
>>> further space from AFRINIC.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Transferring out should not result in a permanent ban on acquiring more<br>
>>> resources, but there should definitely be some hold-down time to prevent<br>
>>> address cycling and speculation.<br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Why not?<br>
>> Unless they can prove they retrieve the last block of address they<br>
>> 'transfer' (aka SELL), why should they get more from the community pool?<br>
>> And again. I oppose this "The AfriNIC Broker Support Policy"<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Suggest that sources of resources for transfer be prohibited from<br>
>>> acquiring additional resources for at least 24 months.<br>
>>><br>
>>> It also proposes in 5.7.4.1 that "the transfer does not require approval<br>
>>> from AFRINIC". Of course there must be a mutual agreement on both sides for<br>
>>> a transfer to happen but the RIR must check everything and 'approve' that<br>
>>> everything is correct and can happen. Furthermore the justification for<br>
>>> coming 10 years it way to long and I've never seen it in any other place<br>
>>> which for me doesn't make sense otherwise would clearly allow stockpiling<br>
>>> which is one of the key things to be avoided in IP assignment since the<br>
>>> very beginning.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Agreed? Recipients of transfers should be subject to the same reviews as<br>
>>> recipients of space from the free pool, IMHO. Further, local sources of<br>
>>> resources for transfer should be validated by the RIR as the legitimate and<br>
>>> uncontested registrant.<br>
>>><br>
>>> For inter-RIR transfers, I would suggest the following:<br>
>>> Source Entity should be verified by Source RIR according to that RIR?s<br>
>>> policies and practices.<br>
>>> Recipient Entity should be verified by Destination RIR according to that<br>
>>> RIR?s policies and practices.<br>
>>><br>
>>> This is the general approach taken in the existing inter-RIR transfer<br>
>>> policies and will yield greatest compatibility with existing inter-RIR<br>
>>> policies.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The proposal also removes something fundamental to fix a historical<br>
>>> mistake, with the removal o 5.7.4.3 which converts legacy transferred<br>
>>> resources to non-legacy.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Agreed?<br>
>>><br>
>>> There should, in my opinion, be no such thing as legacy resources, only<br>
>>> legacy registrations. An existing registration which existed before the RIR<br>
>>> and has not been brought into contract with an existing RIR is a legacy<br>
>>> registration. Any transfer or other transaction which involves a change in<br>
>>> ownership of that registration should require that the recipient enter a<br>
>>> contract with the RIR and that the new registration be non-legacy.<br>
>>><br>
>>> If the authors can adopt these recommendations, I could support the<br>
>>> proposal. Without them, I must oppose the proposal as written.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Owen<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> RPD mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Borg le Chevalier<br>
>> ___________________________________<br>
>> "Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> RPD mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
> On Nov 10, 2019 5:54 PM, "Chevalier du Borg" <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> I opposed this and any out of continent transfer policy at this time. I<br>
> can revise my choice when ALL RIRs have finish their free pool. Otherwise,<br>
> this policy can as well be call<br>
><br>
> "The AfriNIC Broker Support Policy"<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Le mer. 6 nov. 2019 ? 23:42, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">owen@delong.com</a>> a ?crit :<br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Nov 6, 2019, at 07:00 , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> This proposal states in 5.7.3.2 that "the source entities are eligible to<br>
>> receive further IPv4 allocations or assigments from AFRINIC". What is the<br>
>> logic on that ?<br>
>> If a organization is transferring its resources it means it doesn't need<br>
>> them anymore and therefore it doesn't make sense they can receive any<br>
>> further space from AFRINIC.<br>
>><br>
>> Transferring out should not result in a permanent ban on acquiring more<br>
>> resources, but there should definitely be some hold-down time to prevent<br>
>> address cycling and speculation.<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> Why not?<br>
> Unless they can prove they retrieve the last block of address they<br>
> 'transfer' (aka SELL), why should they get more from the community pool?<br>
> And again. I oppose this "The AfriNIC Broker Support Policy"<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
>> Suggest that sources of resources for transfer be prohibited from<br>
>> acquiring additional resources for at least 24 months.<br>
>><br>
>> It also proposes in 5.7.4.1 that "the transfer does not require approval<br>
>> from AFRINIC". Of course there must be a mutual agreement on both sides for<br>
>> a transfer to happen but the RIR must check everything and 'approve' that<br>
>> everything is correct and can happen. Furthermore the justification for<br>
>> coming 10 years it way to long and I've never seen it in any other place<br>
>> which for me doesn't make sense otherwise would clearly allow stockpiling<br>
>> which is one of the key things to be avoided in IP assignment since the<br>
>> very beginning.<br>
>><br>
>> Agreed? Recipients of transfers should be subject to the same reviews as<br>
>> recipients of space from the free pool, IMHO. Further, local sources of<br>
>> resources for transfer should be validated by the RIR as the legitimate and<br>
>> uncontested registrant.<br>
>><br>
>> For inter-RIR transfers, I would suggest the following:<br>
>> Source Entity should be verified by Source RIR according to that RIR?s<br>
>> policies and practices.<br>
>> Recipient Entity should be verified by Destination RIR according to that<br>
>> RIR?s policies and practices.<br>
>><br>
>> This is the general approach taken in the existing inter-RIR transfer<br>
>> policies and will yield greatest compatibility with existing inter-RIR<br>
>> policies.<br>
>><br>
>> The proposal also removes something fundamental to fix a historical<br>
>> mistake, with the removal o 5.7.4.3 which converts legacy transferred<br>
>> resources to non-legacy.<br>
>><br>
>> Agreed?<br>
>><br>
>> There should, in my opinion, be no such thing as legacy resources, only<br>
>> legacy registrations. An existing registration which existed before the RIR<br>
>> and has not been brought into contract with an existing RIR is a legacy<br>
>> registration. Any transfer or other transaction which involves a change in<br>
>> ownership of that registration should require that the recipient enter a<br>
>> contract with the RIR and that the new registration be non-legacy.<br>
>><br>
>> If the authors can adopt these recommendations, I could support the<br>
>> proposal. Without them, I must oppose the proposal as written.<br>
>><br>
>> Owen<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> RPD mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Borg le Chevalier<br>
> ___________________________________<br>
> "Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Borg le Chevalier<br>
___________________________________<br>
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"<br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 22:51:04 +0400<br>
From: Chevalier du Borg <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Jaco Kroon <<a href="mailto:jaco@uls.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jaco@uls.co.za</a>><br>
Cc: "AfriNIC RPD MList." <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] AFRINIC Number Resources Transfer Policy<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAH5aO8dkVqTU0SmHR6Rkg8b92H1=4D_yZoh75APv=<a href="mailto:Q5gSvD2KQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Q5gSvD2KQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Le dim. 10 nov. 2019 ? 21:58, Jaco Kroon <<a href="mailto:jaco@uls.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jaco@uls.co.za</a>> a ?crit :<br>
<br>
> Hi Chevalier.<br>
><br>
> Please allow me to be blunt. That's short sighted.<br>
><br>
> We cannot transfer IN from other regions unless we allow OUT.<br>
><br>
<br>
Agree 100%,<br>
Then you have no problems with wait till all RIRs are equal run out before<br>
we etablish full in and out transfer policy no?<br>
<br>
<br>
> All the other RIRs require reciprocal *compatible* policies, which means<br>
> bi-directional transfers.<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
All RIRs don't all have equal amount of free space. Big difference<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> Not allowing this means we can't get resources in either.<br>
><br>
<br>
While AfriNIC have free space, operators don't need it<br>
When it run out, then we can allow transfer policy<br>
<br>
<br>
Until that time, I oppose these "AfriNIC Broker Support Policy"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> Kind Regards,<br>
> Jaco Kroon<br>
> C.E.O.<br>
><br>
> *T:* +27 (0)12 021 0000 | *F:* +27 86 648 8561 | *E:* <a href="mailto:jaco@iewc.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jaco@iewc.co.za</a><br>
> *W:* <a href="http://iewc.co.za" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">iewc.co.za</a> <<a href="https://www.iewc.co.za/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.iewc.co.za/</a>> | *A:* Unit 201, Building 2B,<br>
> Sunwood Park, Queen's Crescent Lynnwood, Pretoria<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> [image: Facebook] <<a href="https://www.facebook.com/Interexcel/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/Interexcel/</a>> [image: Twitter]<br>
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> <<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/interexcel-world-connection/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/company/interexcel-world-connection/</a>><br>
><br>
> [image: IEWC] <<a href="https://www.iewc.co.za/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.iewc.co.za/</a>> [image: ULS Group]<br>
> <<a href="http://www.uls.co.za/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.uls.co.za/</a>><br>
> On 2019/11/10 18:50, Chevalier du Borg wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> I opposed this and any out of continent transfer policy at this time. I<br>
> can revise my choice when ALL RIRs have finish their free pool. Otherwise,<br>
> this policy can as well be call<br>
><br>
> "The AfriNIC Broker Support Policy"<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Le mer. 6 nov. 2019 ? 23:42, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">owen@delong.com</a>> a ?crit :<br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Nov 6, 2019, at 07:00 , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> This proposal states in 5.7.3.2 that "the source entities are eligible to<br>
>> receive further IPv4 allocations or assigments from AFRINIC". What is the<br>
>> logic on that ?<br>
>> If a organization is transferring its resources it means it doesn't need<br>
>> them anymore and therefore it doesn't make sense they can receive any<br>
>> further space from AFRINIC.<br>
>><br>
>> Transferring out should not result in a permanent ban on acquiring more<br>
>> resources, but there should definitely be some hold-down time to prevent<br>
>> address cycling and speculation.<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> Why not?<br>
> Unless they can prove they retrieve the last block of address they<br>
> 'transfer' (aka SELL), why should they get more from the community pool?<br>
> And again. I oppose this "The AfriNIC Broker Support Policy"<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
>> Suggest that sources of resources for transfer be prohibited from<br>
>> acquiring additional resources for at least 24 months.<br>
>><br>
>> It also proposes in 5.7.4.1 that "the transfer does not require approval<br>
>> from AFRINIC". Of course there must be a mutual agreement on both sides for<br>
>> a transfer to happen but the RIR must check everything and 'approve' that<br>
>> everything is correct and can happen. Furthermore the justification for<br>
>> coming 10 years it way to long and I've never seen it in any other place<br>
>> which for me doesn't make sense otherwise would clearly allow stockpiling<br>
>> which is one of the key things to be avoided in IP assignment since the<br>
>> very beginning.<br>
>><br>
>> Agreed? Recipients of transfers should be subject to the same reviews as<br>
>> recipients of space from the free pool, IMHO. Further, local sources of<br>
>> resources for transfer should be validated by the RIR as the legitimate and<br>
>> uncontested registrant.<br>
>><br>
>> For inter-RIR transfers, I would suggest the following:<br>
>> Source Entity should be verified by Source RIR according to that RIR?s<br>
>> policies and practices.<br>
>> Recipient Entity should be verified by Destination RIR according to that<br>
>> RIR?s policies and practices.<br>
>><br>
>> This is the general approach taken in the existing inter-RIR transfer<br>
>> policies and will yield greatest compatibility with existing inter-RIR<br>
>> policies.<br>
>><br>
>> The proposal also removes something fundamental to fix a historical<br>
>> mistake, with the removal o 5.7.4.3 which converts legacy transferred<br>
>> resources to non-legacy.<br>
>><br>
>> Agreed?<br>
>><br>
>> There should, in my opinion, be no such thing as legacy resources, only<br>
>> legacy registrations. An existing registration which existed before the RIR<br>
>> and has not been brought into contract with an existing RIR is a legacy<br>
>> registration. Any transfer or other transaction which involves a change in<br>
>> ownership of that registration should require that the recipient enter a<br>
>> contract with the RIR and that the new registration be non-legacy.<br>
>><br>
>> If the authors can adopt these recommendations, I could support the<br>
>> proposal. Without them, I must oppose the proposal as written.<br>
>><br>
>> Owen<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> RPD mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Borg le Chevalier<br>
> ___________________________________<br>
> "Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> RPD mailing listRPD@afrinic.nethttps://<a href="http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Borg le Chevalier<br>
___________________________________<br>
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"<br>
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Subject: Digest Footer<br>
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End of RPD Digest, Vol 158, Issue 48<br>
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