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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Daniel, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I think we’re missing the point.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>We are proposing an electronic voting NOT on-site. It is done *<b>previously</b>* to the meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>At the meeting, there is just a “formal ratification”, but the elections have already concluded many weeks before.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Only in the extreme case that 1-2 days *<b>before</b>* the policy meeting the staff realized that we don’t have co-chairs (because illness, visa issues, or whatever, as Caleb suggested), then an alternative and exceptional process is organized and, in that case, I think is fine that the board or any of the committees take care of it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Everybody is able to participate in the meeting, everybody is able to participate in elections (if they have been in the list for some time), and we all save precious time for policy discussion, instead of wasting part of it in something that can be done on-line and improvising procedures and solutions and discussing about all the possible approaches as it happened last times.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>So, nobody is denied to participate in such election’s activity, because *<b>ISN’T</b>* anymore done in the meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>So, in that sense, nobody is a newcomer at the meeting time, from the perspective of the PDWG. Somebody participating for the first time in the PDWG will be able to register in the list (if not done already), and of course, participate in next elections, as both, candidate and voter.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It’s hard to believe, for me, that anyone is opposing, specially in the Internet environment, to move to electronic means, saving time (voting, counting, solving issues, deciding about an alternative process, voting again, counting again, etc.), making the process much more efficient and avoiding paper ballots.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 11/11/19 10:16, "Daniel Yakmut via RPD" <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>What or who do we define as a newcomer?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>1. Is it the person that boarded a plane and arrives at afrinic meeting for the first time.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>2. A local who turned up at an afrinic meeting that is taking place in his community.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I will assume that we are not thinking of denying someone who travel several hundred miles to afrinic meeting for the first time the opportunity to participate in an activity that is part of the experience of the meeting.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I think we should critically look at bringing the newcomers up to speed and ensure they participate without any form of discrimination. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>So I stand against any form of isolation. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 10:59 PM Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Owen, you seem the only one that objects to fix the current issue which most, at least form those who put up their view recognized needs change.<br>The 'beautiful and utopic scenarios' you try to paint don't exist in practice and will never exist. Things must be practical and efficient and people clearly are being able to see the issue that needs improvement and fix. You even deny Board arbitration which is a quiet common thing on exception situations. I wonder who else would be able to do that in a simple and efficiently manner that could not be captured.<br>Trying to keep the current scenario is really a waste of time and a invitation to those who diligently put up their efforts in this process to go away.<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Let's be practical. Perhaps there are adjustments to be made in the text, but maintaining the same scenario that allows anyone that shows up in a meeting in a 'ad-hoc' fashion and that has never participate before to decide just because it *may eventually happen that one or a few of them are able to properly do* is not reasonable at all with all others.<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On 10/11/2019 18:32, Owen DeLong wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Nov 10, 2019, at 05:43 , Chevalier du Borg <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com" target="_blank">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Le sam. 9 nov. 2019 à 23:36, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Nov 9, 2019, at 01:07 , Ahile shagba francis <<a href="mailto:ahilefranc@gmail.com" target="_blank">ahilefranc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The last elections in Kampala witnessed many weird practices. It was glaring that the process lacks so much to term it credible. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Some are forced to agree with the accusations of the person who sent some harsh words regards the manner in which students and locals where bought solely for the purpose of elections by some big wings who play the modern day slavery role.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I take issue with this characterization.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Bringing students and local IT professionals to the AfriNIC meeting is, IMHO, a laudable and useful way to expand our community<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>and improve participation. I don’t know of anyone who was brought solely for the purpose of elections. All of the fellowships I am<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>aware of provided for attendance at the full meeting.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>While some new comer were there for the meeting. It was clear a lot had come just to vote. they were all sit in same place. they allmost all vote for the same person and they all shout in unity when that person won.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Again, I think you are mistaken.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I know several of the people who were sitting together in that block. Many of them were invited to participate by the candidate in question, but at least each of the ones I knew did attend multiple days of the meeting, not only<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>the PDWG session where the election for co-chair was held.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>It’s not surprising that a group of people who know each other and live in the same community and work together in the same industry or attend the same school would want to sit together.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>It’s not surprising that they would support the candidate that is best known to them.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>How is that not legitimate?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>That must not be allow to continue.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>What, exactly is it that you feel was wrong here?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I wish AfriNIC to BAN all newcommer from any kind of vote. They should listen, learn and participate in debate<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Many of them did participate in the debate making meaningful comments on multiple policy proposals.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I wish AfriNIC to BAN all people who have not been register on PPML for at least 2 month before meeting<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Why is participation in an ARIN list required for participation in an AfriNIC meeting?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Or did you mean to refer to RPD list?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I find it interesting that the call here is about the election in Kampala while nobody mentions what happened in Dakar.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>In Dakar, there were literally busloads of local people, many of whom had no relationship to IT.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>They showed up for lunch and the Co-Chair election and then departed never to be seen or heard from in the community again.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>They show up for lunch (quite another problem for NIC to fix), they was no patter of all of them voting for one candidate. In fact many of them leave after lunch so you are dishonest to say they came for co-chair election.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I disagree… There was most definitely a pattern of them voting for the same candidate. The same pattern of sitting together and cheering that you object to above was also present in Dakar.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>In Kampala, there were a large number of local IT students and members of the IT profession who showed up for multiple days<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>of the meeting in part because they were sponsored through fellowships.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>A tainted fellowship of questionable goal for this community. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Tainted by what?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Questionable in what way?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Because you didn’t like the outcome or because you have some actual substantive objection beyond that?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>If you have a substantive objection, make it. Present evidence.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Is there some reason these members of the IT community should be marginalized simply because it is their first meeting?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Yes<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>- any one who come just for lunch<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>They didn’t.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>- any group who come for first time and vote on the same issue and same person is pervsesion of democracy and community trust<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Everyone who votes votes on the same issue. That’s the nature of a vote. As such, it is difficult to understand your concern here.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I can also tell you that not every fellow who came voted for the same person. Yes, there was a visible contingency of fellows that did vote for this particular candidate, but you have no idea of the total number of fellows, nor do you know who the ones that were not part of that contingency voted for.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>To the best of my knowledge, none of the fellows was instructed in how to vote. I know there are accusations of that and if those accusations can be proven, then there is an actual perversion of democracy.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>However, disenfranchising voters simply because they are at their first meeting is also a perversion of democracy.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>same thing with people who don't live in Africa, don't have any business here constantly force their way on the community through very long post and policy that most african who are in the community for along time don't agree is benefit to the continent.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>An interesting perspective. If you truly feel this is the case, then propose rules which ban participation by those people. The current rules allow participation by anyone who chooses to participate and that is true of every RIR.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>We have a history of African participation in the ARIN region as well. Nobody has ever suggested that their participation was invalid even when much of the community may have disagreed with their positions.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>If the majority of the community does not want something, it will not reach consensus, so there is no possibility for “people who don’t live in Africa” to force their way on the community unless the majority of the community agrees with them.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Are they in some way less qualified than other members attending their first meeting?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>yes. in the same way that you should not allow a person who is not American to vote in US election. These people most of them just corrupt the process. Few of them go on to register to mailing list. Few of them go on to post anything intelligent apart from +1 +10<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I am confused… These people were African. Many of them were from Uganda. Many of them were from other parts of Africa. To the best of my knowledge, registration on the mailing list was a condition of the fellowships, so I don’t believe your claim there is valid, either. In general, few of the people signed up for the mailing list post anything intelligent.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Further, the definition of “intelligent” in this context is very subjective.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>One of those fellows is now a PDP co-chair.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Do we feel that the current co-chairs are doing a bad job? Do we feel that they have misrepresented the community in some way?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Newcomwers ought to have some knowledge about what AFRINIC in its entirety entails. So you can make decisions bore from conscience and sincere progress. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>How does a newcomer gain that knowledge without attending a meeting and observing the process first hand?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Join mailing list before the meeting<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>This was done.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Register, attend the meeting and listen<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>This was also done.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>But you know that not the problem. The problem is is when all newcomer, sit in same spot, vote for same person and oppose same proposal or support same proposal (whether francophone or anglophone) ... it a sign that the PDP has been hijack by botmaster.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I can absolutely guarantee you that this did not happen.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Yes, many newcomers sat in the same spot and voted for the same person. Some subset of that group also expressed similar opinions on some of the proposals.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>There were many other newcomers of which you are apparently unaware that did not participate in any of the behavior you are expressing as problematic.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>If you believe that the PDP has been hijacked by a bot master, then please identify this bot master and the bots in question.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>If the PDP has been taken over by a bot master, then there would not be open debate or opposition. There would be easy consensus around each policy desired<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>by said bot master.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I haven’t seen easy consensus around anything at all controversial in AfriNIC in quite some time.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Are you arguing that the co-chairs elected in Kampala are unqualified or a poor choice for the community? Are you arguing that the election had a bad outcome?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>If so, please offer some evidence to support this position.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Many who are pushing for certain policies have failed to sit back and search themselves if they really are for the good of the RIR of they are just out chasing clout. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Blanket accusations of malfeasance such as this are hollow and useless. If you have examples of such malfeasance, you don’t have to name names, but at least<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>provide specific citations. Provide actual content or quotations or references to points on the video record of the meeting where such malfeasance is demonstrated.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Like a non-African who does not live in Africa. Does not own a business in Africa try to shove policy down in AfriNIC?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I don’t think this is responsive to the statement above. Does this mean you have no examples or evidence to present?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Owen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD@afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <o:p></o:p></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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