<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 10, 2019, at 14:01 , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class=""><p class="">In practice this situation you describe is very hard to happen,
we cannot have things in place to treat the very unlikely
situation and that Phase 2 is about to happen soon. Until there
the vast majority or organization (really the vast!) can get
addresses from AfriNic fine. <br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote><div>So the small number of large operators should just be screwed over and enjoy it during that time?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>The fact that the number of operators being screwed over isn’t so much relevant when the number of users being screwed over by proxy in that process is so large.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I’m not sufficiently familiar with the numbers in Africa to present an accurate example, so I will draw from what I do know.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>There are maybe 20 or so major providers in North America and thousands of smaller ones. However, if you look at the customer base served, you’ll see that those 20 or so major providers probably represent close to 80% of the customers in the area.</div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">
I hardly doubt one can justify anything more than a /13 at once at
the moment. Even in a remote hypothesis that is possible the
organization can receive the /13 and work with that until
transfers are allowed as per Jordi's proposal that has been
changed to start with Phase 2 is triggered and that organization
will be able to transfer whatever else is needed. <br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Again, I don’t know the exact situation in Africa, but I can easily see major expansions of the type being conducted by at least a handful of providers in Africa, the most underserved continent in the world, as requiring significantly more than a /13.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Even if we assume residential only and only a /32 per household, a /13 only serves roughly 512,000 households and that’s if you can somehow make it nearly 100% efficient with no addressing overhead (pretty unlikely in any real world scenario).</div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">
One rule for all and much simpler.<br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote><div>Sure, but that rule should include the ability to transfer if you choose. Obviously until AfriNIC hits Phase 2 (which will happen soon as you mention), transfer would be undesirable except for a small number of very large organizations. However, once phase 2 comes into play, Likely, we will hit phase 2 before this policy could be ratified at this point anyway.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Once we hit phase 2, surely the scenario I describe becomes not only probable, but common place. Trying to run an ISP of any size by repeatedly requesting /22s and using them up is absurd.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">
</p><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/11/2019 18:51, Owen DeLong wrote:<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:D3DAE780-6328-4D52-B90C-A026A2FBB63C@delong.com" class="">
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<div class="">On Nov 10, 2019, at 10:51 , Chevalier du Borg
<<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le dim. 10 nov. 2019
à 21:58, Jaco Kroon <<a href="mailto:jaco@uls.co.za" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">jaco@uls.co.za</a>>
a écrit :<br class="">
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<div class=""><p class="">Hi Chevalier.</p><p class="">Please allow me to be blunt. That's short
sighted.</p><p class="">We cannot transfer IN from other regions
unless we allow OUT.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Agree 100%, </div>
<div class="">Then you have no problems with wait till all
RIRs are equal run out before we etablish full in and
out transfer policy no?</div>
<div class=""> </div>
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<div class=""><p class="">All the other RIRs require reciprocal
*compatible* policies, which means bi-directional
transfers.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">All RIRs don't all have equal amount of free
space. Big difference</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Depending on your definition here, 4 out of 5 have exactly equal
amount == 0.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
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<div class="">
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<div class=""><p class="">Not allowing this means we can't get
resources in either.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">While AfriNIC have free space, operators
don't need it</div>
<div class="">When it run out, then we can allow transfer
policy</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
This isn’t entirely true.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It’s possible that an operator needs more than they can get
via current AfriNIC policies due to “soft landing” limitations.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In such a case, said operator might prefer to transfer a
large amount of space in even if they are paying for it on the
market</div>
<div class="">rather than suffer with the small amount of space they can
get from AfriNIC due to the current restrictions.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Is there a valid reason to preclude such a transfer which, in
reality, prolongs the AfriNIC free pool to the benefit of other</div>
<div class="">organizations in Africa?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Owen</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
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