<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 9, 2019, at 19:17 , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
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  <div class=""><p class="">Seems you are taking in consideration to some particular history
      of AfricNic to deny a concept.<br class="">
      It is quiet obvious if you let things loose you will put away the
      people who really make the things happen because they may be
      easily overruled by people who not necessarily are in touch with
      things. It's not because it worked one-off it can be a rule.</p></div></div></blockquote>But it’s worked consistently since the beginning of AfriNIC and there’s no such requirement in any RIR to the best of my knowledge.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>You say it is quite obvious, but if it is so obvious, then where is the persistent harm across many years of AfriNIC elections?</div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">Seems you make up a utopic scenario where everybody that exists
      have the means to decide and this may blow the whole process up as
      there are precedents for that, just because it *may happen* very
      occasionally someone that is new and is able to fully understand.</p></div></div></blockquote>The whole point of a multi-stakeholder bottom up process is inclusion.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>This goes against inclusiveness and everything the process stands for.</div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">If I start to participate in other forums, even if I have a good
      knowledge of the topics and things I would humbly accept to wait
      my time to be able to decide alongside with the others who have
      helped to build things more than me.</p></div></div></blockquote>Well, that’s your choice, and that’s the point… It’s _YOUR_ choice. You shouldn’t be disenfranchised because someone else thinks you haven’t been around long enough.</div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">Letting everybody that shows up to do that is to put away those
      who really do things and a high risk to mess up the process</p></div></div></blockquote><div>I think it’s time for us to agree to disagree on this matter. If you want to claim harm to the process, then show me an example, because the process has been working this way in multiple regions for many years.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">.</p><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/11/2019 00:05, Owen DeLong wrote:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:A9882B1C-E5F5-4759-861B-74030D41D13A@delong.com" class="">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
      <br class="">
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">On Nov 9, 2019, at 12:03 , Fernando Frediani
            <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div class="">
            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
              charset=UTF-8" class="">
            <div class=""><p class="">Owen, I don't think anyone is talking about
                the newcomers to participate in any PDP meeting and
                everybody welcomes it. The point, as you well described
                in part of the email is to be able to vote to on
                co-chair elections.<br class="">
              </p><p class="">It is very reasonable that only people that
                are committed and already involved into the process for
                a minimal time and know how things work should be able
                to decide. With that nobody is excluding new people to
                come and participate and in a next election, if they
                remain and contribute to the community to be able to
                choose as well.</p>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        I’m not entirely convinced of this. We have a cochair from the
        last election who was one such newcomer. Frankly, so far, he
        seems to be doing an excellent job in my opinion.</div>
      <div class="">
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">
            <div class=""><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="">6 months is not a big thing for someone that
                is willing to commit to something and solves a huge
                problem which is the very well known of bringing non
                involved people just to count as a 'ad-hoc' vote and
                manipulate the process to something which certainly will
                not represent the will of the majority of those who
                really build the things. To be able to decide in group
                someone must be a stakeholder of the process and those
                who come one-off are not.<br class="">
              </p>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <div class="">But I’m also not convinced that 6 months actually gains us
          anything. Some of the worst decisions in AfriNIC history have
          come from co-chairs that were well steeped in AfriNIC policy
          development.</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Unless and until you can show me that there has been some
          detrimental effect from newcomers being allowed to vote, I’m
          hesitant to accept the idea of disenfranchising them.</div>
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">
            <div class=""><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="">Otherwise keeping the things as they are is a
                perfectly way to make the people who really are
                committed and work to build good policy to go away
                because the risk of the process to be manipulated will
                always be high.</p>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        I’m not convinced disenfranchising newcomers solves that
        problem.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I do not take the idea of disenfranchising community members
        lightly at all. If it is necessary, there needs to be strong
        evidence of a problem and even stronger evidence that
        disenfranchisement somehow solves the problem.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">So far, we have neither, while we do have at least one valid
        counter-example.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I would accept a less intrusive requirement such as requiring
        that they be subscribed to the RPD list for at least 3 months
        prior to the meeting and have made at least one post to RPD.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I would argue that lots of people who have been involved for
        quite some time don’t truly understand how things work, so your
        belief that attending a second meeting is a miracle cure for
        such ignorance doesn’t hold much water with me.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Anyone who uses IP number resources _IS_ a stakeholder in the
        process, whether they fully understand that fact or not. I think
        you will be hard pressed to find anyone who participated in the
        last co-chair election who does not fit that description.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I have not yet had time to review the full proposal in
        detail, but I will have many more comments on additional flaws
        when I do.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I am in opposition to the proposal as written while I do
        support the idea of producing better and more complete PDWG
        Co-Chair election procedures and documentation.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Owen</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">
            <div class=""><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
              </p>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/11/2019 16:32, Owen
                DeLong wrote:<br class="">
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2B7C8DB1-6124-4522-B1D8-44F58FC536AE@delong.com" class="">
                <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                  charset=UTF-8" class="">
                <br class="">
                <div class=""><br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div class="">On Nov 9, 2019, at 01:07 , Ahile
                      shagba francis <<a href="mailto:ahilefranc@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ahilefranc@gmail.com</a>>
                      wrote:</div>
                    <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                    <div class="">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">The last elections in
                        Kampala witnessed many weird practices. It was
                        glaring that the process lacks so much to term
                        it credible.
                        <div dir="auto" class=""> Some are forced to
                          agree with the accusations of the person who
                          sent some harsh words regards the manner in
                          which students and locals where bought solely
                          for the purpose of elections by some big wings
                          who play the modern day slavery role.</div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  I take issue with this characterization.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Bringing students and local IT
                  professionals to the AfriNIC meeting is, IMHO, a
                  laudable and useful way to expand our community</div>
                <div class="">and improve participation. I don’t know of
                  anyone who was brought solely for the purpose of
                  elections. All of the fellowships I am</div>
                <div class="">aware of provided for attendance at the
                  full meeting.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">The only elections which can be influenced
                  by such attendees who are not representing bona fide
                  AfriNIC members are the PDP</div>
                <div class="">co-chair and the NRO NC/ASO AC
                  representatives. (The NRO NC also stands as the ASO
                  AC).</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Here we are discussing the election of
                  co-chairs, so the role of fellows in that election is
                  a valid topic of discussion.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">I find it interesting that the call here
                  is about the election in Kampala while nobody mentions
                  what happened in Dakar.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">In Dakar, there were literally busloads of
                  local people, many of whom had no relationship to IT.</div>
                <div class="">They showed up for lunch and the Co-Chair
                  election and then departed never to be seen or heard
                  from in the community again.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">In Kampala, there were a large number of
                  local IT students and members of the IT profession who
                  showed up for multiple days</div>
                <div class="">of the meeting in part because they were
                  sponsored through fellowships.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">I can certainly understand criticism of
                  what happened in Dakar, but I must ask about the
                  criticism of Kampala…</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Is there some reason these members of the
                  IT community should be marginalized simply because it
                  is their first meeting?</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Are they in some way less qualified than
                  other members attending their first meeting?</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">At least in the case of the fellows which
                  I met and of which I am aware, they each received
                  briefing materials about AfriNIC and</div>
                <div class="">the policy proposals under discussion.
                  Said briefing materials have been previously reviewed
                  on this list and were as neutral</div>
                <div class="">and factual as they could be, modulo some
                  minor mistakes which were admitted and which did not
                  significantly prejudice any</div>
                <div class="">policy (a couple of minor misquotes IIRC).</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">One of those fellows is now a PDP
                  co-chair.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Do we feel that the current co-chairs are
                  doing a bad job? Do we feel that they have
                  misrepresented the community in some way?</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">
                        <div dir="auto" class="">
                          <div dir="auto" class="">Newcomwers ought to
                            have some knowledge about what AFRINIC in
                            its entirety entails. So you can make
                            decisions bore from conscience and sincere
                            progress. </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  How does a newcomer gain that knowledge without
                  attending a meeting and observing the process first
                  hand?</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Are you arguing that the co-chairs elected
                  in Kampala are unqualified or a poor choice for the
                  community? Are you arguing that the election had a bad
                  outcome?</div>
                <div class="">If so, please offer some evidence to
                  support this position.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">
                        <div dir="auto" class="">
                          <div dir="auto" class="">Many who are pushing
                            for certain policies have failed to sit back
                            and search themselves if they really are for
                            the good of the RIR of they are just out
                            chasing clout. </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  Blanket accusations of malfeasance such as this are
                  hollow and useless. If you have examples of such
                  malfeasance, you don’t have to name names, but at
                  least</div>
                <div class="">provide specific citations. Provide actual
                  content or quotations or references to points on the
                  video record of the meeting where such malfeasance is
                  demonstrated.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">If such an accusation is to be leveled,
                  then it should be leveled such that the accused have
                  some ability to proffer a defense. In a case where it
                  is impossible to know</div>
                <div class="">not only who, but what, exactly, is being
                  accused, there is no ability to offer any defense and
                  the accusation can be neither proven nor disproven. It
                  is hollow and</div>
                <div class="">should be regarded as entirely fictitious
                  in nature.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">
                        <div dir="auto" class="">
                          <div dir="auto" class="">Whatever we try to
                            fix here should be from a sincere motive of
                            taking the RIR to greater heights. </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  In this, at least, we can certainly agree. Let us
                  focus on actual problems to be solved and not on vague
                  and hollow accusations which cannot be meaningfully</div>
                <div class="">addressed.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Owen</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">
                        <div dir="auto" class="">
                          <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div dir="auto" class="">Shalom</div>
                          <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                            <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto" class="">Ahile Shagba Francis.
                              <br class="">
                              Developer | Branding |Graphics <br class="">
                              Frankie-Code Solutions.</div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br class="">
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 9,
                          2019, 07:48 <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>>
                          wrote:<br class="">
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex">Send RPD mailing list
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                          To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
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                          Today's Topics:<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                             1. Re: new policy proposal:
                          AFPUB-2019-GEN-003-DRAFT01: "Chairs<br class="">
                                Elections Process" (Daniel Yakmut)<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          <br class="">
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          Message: 1<br class="">
                          Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 07:46:59 +0100<br class="">
                          From: Daniel Yakmut <<a href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">yakmutd@googlemail.com</a>><br class="">
                          To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br class="">
                          Cc: "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy"
                          <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
                          Subject: Re: [rpd] new policy proposal:
                          AFPUB-2019-GEN-003-DRAFT01:<br class="">
                                  "Chairs Elections Process"<br class="">
                          Message-ID:<br class="">
                                  <CAB3X6me1QCE3_yFZUjfJ+h3=<a href="mailto:7uWRjP9Xe6J-fqkZfG8oD0iwfA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">7uWRjP9Xe6J-fqkZfG8oD0iwfA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br class="">
                          Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          A quick question is "are Co-Chair tied to
                          Country?" I thought part of this<br class="">
                          community is some form of universality,
                          meaning as long as the person(s)<br class="">
                          understand and are doing the job well, country
                          specific should not matter.<br class="">
                          Else we may be trading competency for
                          representative.<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          Therefore, I will disagree with inserting that
                          co-chairs cannot come from<br class="">
                          the same country. Rather can we have other
                          implicit ways that could<br class="">
                          possibly ensure that co-chairs from the same
                          country are not chairing at<br class="">
                          the same time.<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          Simply,<br class="">
                          Daniel<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 7:35 PM JORDI PALET
                          MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
                          wrote:<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          > Hi Fernando,<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > I see your point, which has been also
                          expressed by Pascal, and after<br class="">
                          > thinking again I believe I could agree
                          with an alternative solution and<br class="">
                          > simplification of that specific
                          paragraph.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Note that I?m responding by myself, so my
                          co-author should agree if both<br class="">
                          > of you accept this alternative, as well
                          as the rest of the community, so<br class="">
                          > take it as tentative wording:<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > ?Both chairs can?t be from the same
                          country, except in exceptional<br class="">
                          > situations where there are no other
                          acceptable candidates.?<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Instead of the actual:<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > ?Both chairs can?t be from the same
                          country, except in exceptional<br class="">
                          > situations where there are no other
                          acceptable candidates, in which case<br class="">
                          > one of the chairs will cease in their
                          position at the following election<br class="">
                          > process (following year), either because
                          their term has come to an end or<br class="">
                          > by agreement among the two chairs,
                          failing which the chair who has held the<br class="">
                          > position the longest will automatically
                          cease in their position.?<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > So, will you agree on this? others?<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Regards,<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Jordi<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > @jordipalet<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > El 8/11/19 16:49, "Fernando Frediani"
                          <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
                          escribi?:<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Hello<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > I have to agree that I am also not
                          comfortable the way text is 3.3.1 with<br class="">
                          > regards chair of the same country. While
                          I agree they should not come form<br class="">
                          > the same country as much as possible I
                          recognized there are exceptions<br class="">
                          > where they have to be and no one should
                          be forced out if they became a<br class="">
                          > chair already.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > There are two situations where I believe
                          2 chairs from the same country<br class="">
                          > may co-exist:<br class="">
                          > 1) When there are no other acceptable
                          candidates from other countries (eg:<br class="">
                          > 1 single candidate form the same country
                          as the current chair or all<br class="">
                          > candidates from the same country of the
                          chair)<br class="">
                          > 2) When there is a vacant position that
                          AfricNic Board has to fulfill<br class="">
                          > temporarily.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > With regards the traveling expenses
                          mentioned I don't think they should be<br class="">
                          > in the PDP. While I believe the RIR
                          should always cover that given the<br class="">
                          > importance of the role to the RIR
                          community it is discretionary and up to<br class="">
                          > them to decide that. Furthermore I don't
                          think having this in the PDP can<br class="">
                          > oblige the RIR to do anyway as it's a
                          administrative decision.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > I agree with section 3.3.2 in regards the
                          minimum time to be able to<br class="">
                          > participate in the election process. It
                          brings a lot of value into the<br class="">
                          > process and avoid big issues of
                          non-related people influencing the process.<br class="">
                          > This part for me is one of the most
                          important of the proposal.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Fernando<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > On 08/11/2019 04:33, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
                          via RPD wrote:<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Hi Pascal,<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Thanks for your inputs, let me answer
                          below, in-line.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Regards,<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Jordi<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > @jordipalet<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > El 8/11/19 4:32, "Paschal Ochang" <<a href="mailto:pascosoft@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">pascosoft@gmail.com</a>>
                          escribi?:<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Hello this is a great proposal but I have
                          some concerns about some of the<br class="">
                          > newly adopted procedures.<br class="">
                          > In section 3.3.1 I don't think it will be
                          right for a chair who has held<br class="">
                          > the position longest to vacate the
                          position in a scenario where the<br class="">
                          > cochairs originate from the same country
                          in extreme scenarios. While we aim<br class="">
                          > to select algorithms to minimize the
                          possibility of a vacant seat at any<br class="">
                          > point in time we should also try not to
                          break the wheel of experience here.<br class="">
                          > A longer serving cochair will be more
                          conversant with the affairs of the<br class="">
                          > PDWG in most cases so I think vacating
                          his or her seat won't be ideal.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > ? While I could agree here in your view,
                          I think that there must be a<br class="">
                          > balance in giving opportunity to new
                          people. The text already gives the<br class="">
                          > opportunity to the chairs to take a
                          decision on that. Note also, that if<br class="">
                          > the chair that has been longer time in
                          the position hasn?t exceeded the two<br class="">
                          > consecutive terms, he still can submit
                          his candidacy for that election, so<br class="">
                          > it is giving the voice to the community
                          about that. On the other hand, we<br class="">
                          > may have a longer time in the position
                          chair that is not performing well<br class="">
                          > (even if it has more experience) so the
                          community has a way to not vote him<br class="">
                          > again. It is a difficult balance. I will
                          like to hear from you and others<br class="">
                          > specific suggestions about this point.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Secondly while we aim to sanitize the
                          motives for people contesting for<br class="">
                          > cochair I don't think a little stipend
                          for co-chairs will do any damage to<br class="">
                          > the election process for me I think a per
                          sitting allowance or stipend<br class="">
                          > should be adopted if not already so.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > ? AFRINIC (I believe) support the chairs
                          in their traveling expenses to<br class="">
                          > the meeting and from time to time to
                          other RIR meetings. Is not that<br class="">
                          > sufficient? Otherwise, what you will
                          suggest? Should we have that (even for<br class="">
                          > traveling expenses) in the PDP?<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > section 3.3.2 will disenfranchise voters.
                          It's possible a deprived voter<br class="">
                          > might not be active in the rpd but has
                          been abreast with the happenings of<br class="">
                          > the community. Therefore are we going to
                          say we cannot allow that voter to<br class="">
                          > cast his or her vote?. A deprived voter
                          might be attending a PPM for the<br class="">
                          > first time and will feel disenfranchised
                          because I believe the presentation<br class="">
                          > of the candidates is also an incentive to
                          motivate or give voters an idea<br class="">
                          > of their portfolio which I think is
                          enough to orientate a newbie attendee<br class="">
                          > if I may use that phrase .<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Without elaborating or handling some of
                          this concerns I think this<br class="">
                          > proposal cannot be accepted as it is.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > ? Note that I?m asking only for having
                          been in the RPD list for 6 months.<br class="">
                          > I?m not asking for demonstrating
                          ?activity?. I my opinion this will fulfil<br class="">
                          > the case you?re indicating in your first
                          case.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > ? Regarding a newcomer participating as
                          voter, I?ve seen in many RIR<br class="">
                          > meetings, including AFRINIC, a bunch
                          (even hundreds) of local students,<br class="">
                          > participating for the first time as
                          guest. 99% of those participants will<br class="">
                          > never participate again in AFRINIC, RPD,
                          etc. Hundreds of them can vote for<br class="">
                          > a specific candidate, without knowing at
                          all nothing about the candidate or<br class="">
                          > the PDP, for example, just because the
                          candidate is local. Of course, in<br class="">
                          > some cases that candidate can be a very
                          valid one, however nothing ensures<br class="">
                          > it and further this is a distortion of
                          the process and very discriminatory<br class="">
                          > towards the other candidates. For
                          example, the other candidates can say<br class="">
                          > ?I?ve organized a remote hub so the
                          people can participate in a remote<br class="">
                          > meeting room? (and get there hundreds of
                          people that possibly will support<br class="">
                          > that candidacy). I think those newcomers
                          can perfectly understand, if they<br class="">
                          > are interested in a continued AFRINIC
                          participation, shy those rules are<br class="">
                          > done and this specific point will not,
                          for that, feel uncomfortable or<br class="">
                          > decide not to continue participating
                          because that, in the other way around<br class="">
                          > ?next time I will be voting?. Is like
                          when you need to have 18 years to<br class="">
                          > vote. Reason for that is that you have
                          some degree of ?adult thinking, life<br class="">
                          > experience, public policy understanding,
                          etc.?; here we are saying your<br class="">
                          > experience to be able to participate is
                          having been there for a few months.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > ? Note that a participant in the meeting
                          if really interested in AFRINIC,<br class="">
                          > has been able to be in the RPD list much
                          more time ahead the meeting, so<br class="">
                          > nothing forbids him to actually
                          participate.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > ? Last but not least, the way that
                          electronic voting is organized is<br class="">
                          > based on using the RPD list as the
                          electoral census. NOBODY will vote<br class="">
                          > ?on-site?, the election is done BEFORE
                          the meeting.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > ? As said, happy to heard inputs on those
                          specific points (and in general<br class="">
                          > in all the proposal, of course!):<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > On Wednesday, November 6, 2019, Fernando
                          Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
                          > wrote:<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Hello.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > The text of the proposal is well written
                          and I believe brings value to the<br class="">
                          > election process with control mechanisms
                          to ensure neutrality and balance<br class="">
                          > of the chosen persons.<br class="">
                          > One important point I highlight is that
                          staff when implementing this make<br class="">
                          > sure a trustable electronic system is
                          used to ensure one vote by<br class="">
                          > participant and to avoid fraud. I guess
                          something about that will be<br class="">
                          > contained in the impact analysis that
                          will come.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Fernando<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > On 05/11/2019 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
                          via RPD wrote:<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Hi all,<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > As with the previous ones, I'm attaching
                          our proposal PDF, already submitted, so the
                          community can start commenting in case the
                          publication by AFRINIC is delayed.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Thanks in advance for any inputs!<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Regards,<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Jordi<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > @jordipalet<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          >
                          **********************************************<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > IPv4 is over<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > The IPv6 Company<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > This electronic message contains
                          information which may be privileged or
                          confidential. The information is intended to
                          be for the exclusive use of the individual(s)
                          named above and further non-explicilty
                          authorized disclosure, copying, distribution
                          or use of the contents of this information,
                          even if partially, including attached files,
                          is strictly prohibited and will be considered
                          a criminal offense. If you are not the
                          intended recipient be aware that any
                          disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
                          the contents of this information, even if
                          partially, including attached files, is
                          strictly prohibited, will be considered a
                          criminal offense, so you must reply to the
                          original sender to inform about this
                          communication and delete it.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          >
                          _______________________________________________<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > RPD mailing list<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          >
                          **********************************************<br class="">
                          > IPv4 is over<br class="">
                          > Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br class="">
                          > <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br class="">
                          > The IPv6 Company<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > This electronic message contains
                          information which may be privileged or<br class="">
                          > confidential. The information is intended
                          to be for the exclusive use of<br class="">
                          > the individual(s) named above and further
                          non-explicilty authorized<br class="">
                          > disclosure, copying, distribution or use
                          of the contents of this<br class="">
                          > information, even if partially, including
                          attached files, is strictly<br class="">
                          > prohibited and will be considered a
                          criminal offense. If you are not the<br class="">
                          > intended recipient be aware that any
                          disclosure, copying, distribution or<br class="">
                          > use of the contents of this information,
                          even if partially, including<br class="">
                          > attached files, is strictly prohibited,
                          will be considered a criminal<br class="">
                          > offense, so you must reply to the
                          original sender to inform about this<br class="">
                          > communication and delete it.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          >
                          _______________________________________________<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > RPD mailing list<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          >
                          _______________________________________________
                          RPD mailing list<br class="">
                          > <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer
                            noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          >
                          **********************************************<br class="">
                          > IPv4 is over<br class="">
                          > Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br class="">
                          > <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br class="">
                          > The IPv6 Company<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          > This electronic message contains
                          information which may be privileged or<br class="">
                          > confidential. The information is intended
                          to be for the exclusive use of<br class="">
                          > the individual(s) named above and further
                          non-explicilty authorized<br class="">
                          > disclosure, copying, distribution or use
                          of the contents of this<br class="">
                          > information, even if partially, including
                          attached files, is strictly<br class="">
                          > prohibited and will be considered a
                          criminal offense. If you are not the<br class="">
                          > intended recipient be aware that any
                          disclosure, copying, distribution or<br class="">
                          > use of the contents of this information,
                          even if partially, including<br class="">
                          > attached files, is strictly prohibited,
                          will be considered a criminal<br class="">
                          > offense, so you must reply to the
                          original sender to inform about this<br class="">
                          > communication and delete it.<br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          >
                          _______________________________________________<br class="">
                          > RPD mailing list<br class="">
                          > <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
                          > <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
                          ><br class="">
                          -------------- next part --------------<br class="">
                          An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">
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                          <br class="">
                          ------------------------------<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          Subject: Digest Footer<br class="">
                          <br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
                          RPD mailing list<br class="">
                          <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
                          <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          ------------------------------<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          End of RPD Digest, Vol 158, Issue 28<br class="">
                          ************************************<br class="">
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      _______________________________________________<br class="">
                      RPD mailing list<br class="">
                      <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
                      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                <br class="">
                <br class="">
                <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br class="">
            RPD mailing list<br class="">
            <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
            <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br class="">
    </blockquote>
  </div>

_______________________________________________<br class="">RPD mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>