<div dir="auto">Hello Lee,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Like I suggested earlier, AfriNIC will have no influence over such transactions, and thus can not alter lease terms directly. The significance of the body's presence is only as a book keeper.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Kind Regards, </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Anthony </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 13 Jul 2019, 20:54 , <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
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1. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (Lee Howard)<br>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 15:53:35 -0400<br>
From: Lee Howard <<a href="mailto:lee.howard@retevia.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">lee.howard@retevia.net</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:e89d92f1-7031-8170-3790-79907bd7a31f@retevia.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">e89d92f1-7031-8170-3790-79907bd7a31f@retevia.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
I like the idea of leasing, in general.<br>
<br>
I'm not sure this three-party contract will work. In a regular leasing <br>
contract, the lessor and lessee (the one leasing out the addresses and <br>
the one taking them in) negotiate the terms of the contract, including <br>
the term of the lease. If the lessor wants their addresses back, they <br>
have to give certain notice to the lessee.<br>
<br>
If I were leasing addresses, I would want to make sure I could keep them <br>
for as long as I would need them. Maybe that's two years while I deploy <br>
my IPv6 and translators. Maybe that's five years and I think IPv4 won't <br>
be as necessary by then. I wouldn't go into the contract unless it <br>
solved my problem.<br>
<br>
If part way through the contract a third party (Afrinic) decided to <br>
cancel it, what would I do then? Would I have to go buy IPv4 addresses <br>
at whatever market rate happened to be?<br>
<br>
If were an African company and had addresses I could sell, but decided <br>
to lease to a non-African company, I would be budgeting based on that <br>
revenue. If Afrinic suddenly canceled my contract, I don't have that <br>
revenue any more. If I've been building out my network because I new I <br>
had thousands of dollars coming in, and suddenly I don't, I might have <br>
expenses I can't cover. What happens then?<br>
<br>
While I think this is a good idea, I think the idea that the Board could <br>
halt the inter-RIR transfer if it's too imbalanced makes more sense.<br>
<br>
Also, everyone should deploy IPv6. This IPv4 runout is risky.<br>
<br>
Lee<br>
<br>
On 7/13/19 5:38 AM, Ubah Anthony Ikechukwu wrote:<br>
> Dear Jodi,<br>
><br>
> I quite agree?with Soad's suggestion on IPv4 leasing, as Afric <br>
> shouldn't be boxed in.<br>
> A tripartite arrangement between Resource owner (Lessor) , the Lessee, <br>
> and AfriNIC (book keeping) on resource leasing will be a way good way <br>
> forward.<br>
><br>
> Since AFRINIC actually has no direct control of these resources, a <br>
> policy that supports leasing is actually very necessary in keeping tap <br>
> on resource flow and an open market. This will also offer a leasing <br>
> guidelines and arrangement which will global for African resources <br>
> leased, like leasing duration, terms and conditions, and resource <br>
> protection.<br>
><br>
> If the flow of resources maintains a negative trends like some people <br>
> suggest, it will be easier to control using uniform pricing and other <br>
> policies or strategies deemed fit by the community.<br>
><br>
> In the mean time, I'd really love to see the impacts analyse.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Anthony<br>
><br>
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2019, 13:00 , <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a> <br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
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> Today's Topics:<br>
><br>
> ? ?1.? inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (SOUAD ABIDI)<br>
> ? ?2. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals<br>
> ? ? ? (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)<br>
><br>
><br>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Message: 1<br>
> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 11:48:17 +0100<br>
> From: SOUAD ABIDI <<a href="mailto:fs_abidi@esi.dz" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fs_abidi@esi.dz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fs_abidi@esi.dz" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fs_abidi@esi.dz</a>>><br>
> To: AfriNIC List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>><br>
> Subject: [rpd]? inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals<br>
> Message-ID:<br>
> ? ? ? ?<br>
> <CAAKrF68NtNRLP=<a href="mailto:s3kYAQFsU0U1xzwbPRr65uGHt0rQKxerv1xQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">s3kYAQFsU0U1xzwbPRr65uGHt0rQKxerv1xQ@mail.gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:s3kYAQFsU0U1xzwbPRr65uGHt0rQKxerv1xQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">s3kYAQFsU0U1xzwbPRr65uGHt0rQKxerv1xQ@mail.gmail.com</a>>><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
><br>
> Hello,<br>
><br>
> As IPv4 are finite and if we do the transfer, our resources may<br>
> run out<br>
> from our region-since there is no a explicit control motioned in<br>
> the policy<br>
> - As some people argue.<br>
> Here what I suggest :<br>
><br>
> ?? ? ? ? ?Establishing a leasing contract between the seller and<br>
> the buyer<br>
> up to 5? years with a possibility to renew it and AfriNIC will be<br>
> the 3rd<br>
> part of the? ? ? ? ? deal .<br>
><br>
> ?? ? ? ? ?AfriNIC takes no money? and? makes no? approval.<br>
><br>
> ?? ? ? ? ?The buyer needs to be registered somehow in the world.<br>
><br>
> ?? ? ? ? ?The contract needs to be signed by the 3 parts<br>
> (afriNIC-seller-buyer)<br>
><br>
> So buy adopting? this approach and? if we notice that our<br>
> resources are<br>
> running out from our region, we can decide to bring them back and the<br>
> companies do not renew the contract with .<br>
><br>
><br>
> Best regards.<br>
><br>
> Souad<br>
> -------------- next part --------------<br>
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><br>
> ------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Message: 2<br>
> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:08:13 +0200<br>
> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>>><br>
> To: AfriNIC List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>><br>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals<br>
> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:ADB5CBA8-606A-4FD2-B594-5887DF89DFAB@consulintel.es" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ADB5CBA8-606A-4FD2-B594-5887DF89DFAB@consulintel.es</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ADB5CBA8-606A-4FD2-B594-5887DF89DFAB@consulintel.es" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ADB5CBA8-606A-4FD2-B594-5887DF89DFAB@consulintel.es</a>>><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
><br>
> Hi Souad,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> The problem of this is that it will be useless with other RIRs,<br>
> because they require reciprocity in their policies.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> If we forget that the major ?donor? is ARIN and we don?t do<br>
> something that it is reciprocal with their policy.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I still think my approach with the suggested changes is the best<br>
> one. ASAP I can get the impact analysis, I will review the text to<br>
> accommodate to it and send a new version.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Jordi<br>
><br>
> @jordipalet<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> El 12/7/19 12:55, "SOUAD ABIDI" <<a href="mailto:fs_abidi@esi.dz" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fs_abidi@esi.dz</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fs_abidi@esi.dz" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fs_abidi@esi.dz</a>>> escribi?:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hello,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> As IPv4 are finite and if we do the transfer, our resources may<br>
> run out from our region-since there is no a explicit control<br>
> motioned in the policy - As some people argue.<br>
><br>
> Here what I suggest :<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ?? ? ? ? ?Establishing a leasing contract between the seller and<br>
> the buyer up to 5? years with a possibility to renew it and<br>
> AfriNIC? will be the 3rd part of the deal .<br>
><br>
> ?? ? ? ? ?AfriNIC takes no money? and? makes no approval.<br>
><br>
> ?? ? ? ? ?The buyer needs to be registered somehow in the world.<br>
><br>
> ?? ? ? ? ?The contract needs to be signed by the 3 parts<br>
> (afriNIC-seller-buyer)<br>
><br>
> So buy adopting? this approach and? if we notice that our<br>
> resources are running out from our region, we can decide to bring<br>
> them back and the companies do not renew the contract with .<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Best regards.<br>
><br>
> Souad<br>
><br>
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