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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Souad,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I think you’re missing several points:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>ARIN got the higher number of legacy resources vs other regions (slide 10) and very close to APNIC and RIPE in terms of non-legacy (slide 11). So, they are able to release more IPv4 addresses.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>ARIN has a big penetration of IPv6 and going up (</span><a href="https://www.worldipv6launch.org/measurements/"><span lang=EN-US>https://www.worldipv6launch.org/measurements/</span></a><span lang=EN-US>). You can see there that the bigger broadband and cellular US/Canada ISPs (Comcast, Charter, ATT, Verizon, T-Mobile, Cox, Sprint, Rogers, Telus, Google fiber…), already have more than 50% deployment, in some cases 70 and even 94% ! So, they are able to keep releasing more IPv4 addresses. You can see in that figure that big deployments in Europe (Free, DT, BT, Sky, Orange, OTE, Telenet, RCS&RDS, Belgacom, etc.), keep increasing. Same in AP (India, South Korea, Japan, China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, etc.). </span>Some also in LAC (Telmex, Claro Brasil, Vivo, Telecentro, Antel, etc) and going up. <span lang=EN-US>The list goes on and on everywhere, except in Africa.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>ARIN has been, consistently, every quarter, the major donor of addresses to the other regions (slides 12 to 16).<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>ARIN policy (same as in LACNIC and APNIC), “converts”, by means of transfers, legacy space into non-legacy, which is good for all (being non-legacy it means policies fully apply to those addresses), because brings to the RIR system lots of addresses that where not used, or companies who got them didn’t longer exist, etc. (slide 17).<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>(please see my presentation slides, video, etc., </span><a href="https://www.internetsummit.africa/components/com_afmeeting/speakers/3283/3-Jordi-AFPUB-2019-v4-001-002.pdf"><span lang=EN-US>https://www.internetsummit.africa/components/com_afmeeting/speakers/3283/3-Jordi-AFPUB-2019-v4-001-002.pdf</span></a><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>, </span><a href="https://www.internetsummit.africa/en/agenda/video-day-3"><span lang=EN-US>https://www.internetsummit.africa/en/agenda/video-day-3</span></a><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>)</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I’m just considering ARIN here because is the bigger donor of addresses (right now) to other regions, but of course, you can make the same rational when the other regions keep increasing the IPv6 deployment level.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If AFRINIC “enters” in the inter-RIR transfers “system” that we have now in the other 4 regions, this is the outcome, IF and ONLY IF, we have a reciprocal policy (at least for some regions, and specially ARIN):<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>AFRINIC will be able to get addresses from ARIN and other regions.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>When the other regions increase their level of IPv6 deployment, they will become “natural” donors from many of the addresses that they got from ARIN. Of course, the speed of this will be different from region to region.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>At the end of the history, when AFRINIC has a very good IPv6 deployment penetration, the need for IPv4 addresses and the “value”, will start decreasing.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Nobody has the crystal ball, that’s clear, but historical data reflects reality and trends.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Why this is going to be different if AFRINIC comes into the “inter-RIR” system?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Now, all that said, I fully understand the “fear to the unknown” and that the community want to have some kind of protection, in the very strange case, that this time, the trends change suddenly what the historical data tells up to now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This is why my proposal is:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Amend the policy proposal with the point raised by the staff, which hopefully I can see in the impact analysis soon.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Amend the policy proposal with other comments received during the presentation and the list discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Include as a “security belt” the measures that we discussed in the list discussion:<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoListParagraph><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>1. Each time a transfer is completed, the relevant, non-confidential information will be automatically published in a specific web page, including at least: Date of the transfer, transferred addresses, source organization and RIR, destination organization and RIR.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>2. The Inter-RIR transfers will only be enabled once AFRINIC enter into Exhaustion Phase 2 (5.4.3.2).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>3. The Inter-RIR transfers will be automatically suspended in case the number of outgoing IPv4 addresses exceeds the incoming ones by six consecutive months.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>4. The staff can provisionally suspend any suspicious operation that creates a big unbalance against AFRINIC, until the board takes a decision.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This provides: transparency to the transfers, timeline to start, an automatic check month to month and “insurance of risk” at month 6 after implementation and then every next month, a further check of any suspicious operation that can be suspended by the staff so the board can decide about it or tell the community “this or that is happening, should we do something, should we definitively cancel the policy, etc.”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If somebody thinks this is not enough, please, explain why and propose an alternative solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 13/7/19 11:32, "SOUAD ABIDI" <<a href="mailto:fs_abidi@esi.dz">fs_abidi@esi.dz</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Jordi,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I guess ,when it will no IPv4 remain in other regions(which is soon the case) ,nobody will negociate the conditions of the pool's owner (Africa).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Gregoire,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>If we notice that our resources run out from the region after the transfer , we can bring them back to Africa (afriNIC will not accept the renewal of the contract between the seller and the buyer).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Souad <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Le ven. 12 juil. 2019 à 20:37, Gregoire Ehoumi <<a href="mailto:gregoire.ehoumi@yahoo.fr">gregoire.ehoumi@yahoo.fr</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div style='margin-bottom:33.75pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hi Souad,<br><br>How will this type of contract benefit AfriNIC and our region?<br><br>--Gregoire<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div id="m_82799172288679912LGEmailHeader"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>------ Original message------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>SOUAD ABIDI<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Date: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Fri, Jul 12, 2019 6:50 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>AfriNIC List;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Cc: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>[rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hello, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>As IPv4 are finite and if we do the transfer, our resources may run out from our region-since there is no a explicit control motioned in the policy - As some people argue.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Here what I suggest : <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=m82799172288679912gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>??</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>Establishing a leasing contract between the seller and the buyer up to 5 years with a possibility to renew it and AfriNIC will be the 3<sup>rd</sup> part of the deal .</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=m82799172288679912gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>??</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>AfriNIC takes no money and makes no approval. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=m82799172288679912gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>??</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>The buyer needs to be registered somehow in the world.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=m82799172288679912gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>??</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>The contract needs to be signed by the 3 parts (afriNIC-seller-buyer)</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=m82799172288679912gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>So buy adopting this approach and if we notice that our resources are running out from our region, we can decide to bring them back and the companies do not renew the contract with . </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=m82799172288679912gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=m82799172288679912gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>Best regards.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=m82799172288679912gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>Souad</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD@afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd 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