<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>{i had to remove this conversation from the previous thread <span
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><br>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2019/009333.html"><https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2019/009333.html></a></span>]
prior to answer.}<br>
</p>
<p>Hi all,<br>
</p>
<p>Please see below (inline)...<br>
<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 6/26/2019 à 5:08 PM, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via RPD a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:09AFD9E2-CE6D-4D62-83DA-A5B93A10D3C9@consulintel.es">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">See below, in-line. I think you’re getting
confused …</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>...no confusion, although perhaps a mix of serious and joke
(even if not really <br>
qualify for it) below ?</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:09AFD9E2-CE6D-4D62-83DA-A5B93A10D3C9@consulintel.es">
<div class="WordSection1">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 26/6/19
17:53, "Sylvain BAYA" <<a
href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com">abscoco@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi all, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Please see
below (inline)...</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Le 6/26/2019 à
9:36 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD a écrit :</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I just got one idea … One possibility to make
it more neutral and having the knowledge of the
operational insights …</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> Hi Jordi, if
i'm getting you well, (permit me please) you are saying that
it if we need a policy proposal turned as an operational
procedure, we should leave the exclisivity up to the Staff
to submit it to the PDWG prior to be implemented... Am i
wrong ?</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">1:
I don’t believe something like the ARC should be a policy.
It is just an operational issue. The RSA already allows the
staff to tackle it.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span>
<div>Ok, first, remember that i was just trying to follow *your
idea*, not mine.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...if i failed to get your point, i apologize, but i'm still
understanding it like <br>
that {i'm probably missing something, you can explain me}.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You shared an idea, i analysed it and *i* gave *my own*
conclusion as follow : <br>
</div>
<div>- *if* it says that "<i>*if we* need a policy proposal turned
as an operational <br>
procedure, we should leave the exclusivity up to the Staff to
submit it to the <br>
PDWG prior to be implemented (after following all the PDP as for
any other <br>
policy, yes!)</i>"; then <br>
</div>
<div>- IMHO, this is the *small* change into the *normal* PDP
(*variance*) it <br>
implies : <br>
</div>
<div>- No policy proposal of operational procedure type (out of PDWG
scope for <br>
me, if proved), unless from the Staff (conclusion based on the
premise). <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now, please, "trust me" it drives to a *variance*, because the
CPM section 3.4.0, <br>
«[...] Anyone can submit a proposal. [...]», clearly states that
everyone can <br>
submit *any* acceptable (<span class="tlid-translation
translation" lang="en"><span title="" class="">speaking in terms
of the PDWG scope</span></span>) proposal...<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Are you getting me, better, now ? {...you have to know that i
have one more <br>
variance implication ;-) in case the first one is not sufficient ;
but i think it will <br>
suffice.} <br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:09AFD9E2-CE6D-4D62-83DA-A5B93A10D3C9@consulintel.es">
<div class="WordSection1">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Even if normally the staff doesn’t submit
policy proposals, is perfectly valid. Nothing is against
that in the PDP. They follow exactly the same process: the
community must also approve it.</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> IMHO, i see
no real need (yes :-) the neutrality you mentioned above) to
*Varying the process* here. I mean someone, from the PDWG,
should just submit it (if needed), then it will follow the
normal PDP (Impact Analysis Report will raise the Staff
concern then).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">2: Mixing things doesn’t help at all to have
all this clearer. I’m not saying the staff needs to use
the variance process at all. I’m saying that if the
community believes this should be a policy (I don’t think
is needed), it is just fine, according to the PDP (nothing
special), that this policy proposal is done by the staff
and the community will need to agree on consensus, just
like *<b>any other policy proposal</b>*</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span> </p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But, please read again and you will see that i am not for
operational <br>
procedures (nor for technical guidances) into the CPM (i think we
have BCOPs, <br>
or internal procedures, for that, i may be wrong or seen as *bad*
mixer but <br>
i will always challenge this risk). <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And, of course, i was not stating that you are for it. I have
understood that <br>
you shared your idea to propose a soft exit for those *you think*
want <br>
these type of *policies* into the CPM (hope i am not wrong this
time. <br>
Hope to have other views on the subject).<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...i just wanted to understand how practical what you suggested
is.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you see it as a mix (of non interoperable things)...to
question the <br>
consequences of what i see (again i may be wrong and i have this
right at <br>
least as a new comer :-) ) as a *a possible change* (or
variation?) into the <br>
habitual PDP. Sincerely, i don't know (but yes, to keep quiet) how
to correct <br>
it... :'-(<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:09AFD9E2-CE6D-4D62-83DA-A5B93A10D3C9@consulintel.es">
<div class="WordSection1">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">My point is
that, we want the Staff more proactive [1], to *timely*
provide needed information (including legal one) both onlist
and at PPM (CPM section 3.4.0), to *timely* provide Impact
Analysis Reports (CPM section 3.4.1)...and as actually
proven, it's not easy to get it done.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">3: Again, don’t mix things, I’m not talking
about the impact analysis. You can see the email subject
is ARC.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
...Jordi, IMHO if you mix things very well, i'll be ok with that.
I was thinking <br>
before (you) that all we are doing, in this earth, is to try to
mix different <br>
things to get a well mixed *dough*. I have in head, cookers (and
managers) <br>
and i'm sure they are doing a good job ;-)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Apart joking (as you had a talk on it on a thread where
secret-wg was <br>
mentioned) a bit, i can ensure you that *i'm sure* that my mixing
is not a bad<br>
one :-) {i may be wrong, but no more than clear arguments will
suffice to <br>
convince me}.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...impact analysis ?</div>
<div>Look, what i was trying to put in lights is the apparently
*overoccupancy* <br>
(and you, also, have wrote about this, somewhat, <span
class="tlid-translation translation" lang="en"><span title=""
class="">worrying</span></span> <span class="tlid-translation
translation" lang="en"><span title="" class="">situation</span></span>)
of the <br>
Staff. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...my point was that if the Staff are (seen as) so busy now ;
to a much greater <br>
extent will they be if they also have to play an author role for
one (or more) <br>
policy proposal ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As you explained (and i told you that it was instructive) me
how it is time <br>
consuming to get a policy proposal through the PDP to the CPM, how
can they <br>
be engaged as author with less *impact* unsollicited ? {...again,
i did a simple <br>
analysis and i will continue to do so until it is *factually*
proven that i'm wrong <br>
in my approach.}</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Again, i choose to use a fresh (local) example to sustain my
argumentation and <br>
you see it as a (*bad*) mix. Would you prefer me to take an *out
of scope* <br>
example ? ...say the cooker one for instance :-)</div>
<div> </div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:09AFD9E2-CE6D-4D62-83DA-A5B93A10D3C9@consulintel.es">
<div class="WordSection1">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">This
way it was developed in RIPE NCC.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Maybe
Ernest, Madhvi or other staff want to take it?</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">...i don't
think that they should be involved in the PDP as author,
even just in case of emergency :-)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Is there not
also a bit of *conflict of interest* ?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">4: No variance, the PDP allows the staff to
submit policy proposals. Doesn’t happen often, but is
quite admissible if we want the ARC to be a policy instead
of just an operational procedure.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...<span class="tlid-translation translation" lang="en"><span
title="" class="">agree with you on everything except the "no
variance" assertion.</span></span><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...also don't forget that, actually i'm actively reading the
CPM and be sure <br>
that *any time*, i will think there is a problem (in regards of
the PDP or <br>
other policies) with some practices on the PDWG, i'll raise it.
Even if at end <br>
i'm turned ridiculous...no matter :-)<br>
</div>
<div><span lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:09AFD9E2-CE6D-4D62-83DA-A5B93A10D3C9@consulintel.es">
<div class="WordSection1">
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Again,
they could do this just an operational procedure, but if
we prefer a policy, this is nice way in the middle.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Ok with that,
and again i see no problem if any other participant (or an
other special WG which may exist ?) decides to author|submit
such an operational policy proposal :-) </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">__</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">[1]: <span
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396e"><a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2019/009626.html"><https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2019/009626.html></a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Shalom,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">--sb.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>Hey ! Jordi, i'm still thankfull for the opportunities i still
have, during our <br>
discussions, and which help me to better understand how things
work out <br>
there ;-)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks & Shalom,</div>
<div>--sb.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:09AFD9E2-CE6D-4D62-83DA-A5B93A10D3C9@consulintel.es">
<div class="WordSection1">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">El 26/6/19
10:29, "Nasir Faruk" <<a
href="mailto:nasirfaruk@gmail.com">nasirfaruk@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">@SOUAD
ABIDI,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">I think
the author sent ARC document as a suggestion or rather
something worth looking at that could assists to shape
the discussion on INR. I am sure it's presented as a new
proposal.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">@Dewole, i
hope i'm right?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Best
Regards</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Faruk.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">..............................................................................................</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">............</span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">[...]
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
[...]</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Regards,
Sylvain B.
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.chretiennement.org"><http://www.chretiennement.org></a>
__
Website : <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.cmnog.cm"><https://www.cmnog.cm></a>
Wiki : <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.cmnog.cm/dokuwiki"><https://www.cmnog.cm/dokuwiki></a>
Surveys : <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://survey.cmnog.cm"><https://survey.cmnog.cm></a>
Subscribe to Mailing List : <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/"><https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/></a>
Mailing List's Archives : <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/pipermail/cmnog/"><https://lists.cmnog.cm/pipermail/cmnog/></a>
Last Event's Feed : <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/cmNOGlab3"><https://twitter.com/hashtag/cmNOGlab3></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://twitter.com/cmN0G"><https://twitter.com/cmN0G></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://facebook.com/cmNOG"><https://facebook.com/cmNOG></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/REBOOTcmNOG"><https://twitter.com/hashtag/REBOOTcmNOG></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/cmNOG"><https://twitter.com/hashtag/cmNOG></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://cmnog.wordpress.com/"><https://cmnog.wordpress.com/></a></pre>
</body>
</html>