<div dir="ltr"><div>Howard,</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 8:40 PM Lee Howard <<a href="mailto:lee.howard@retevia.net">lee.howard@retevia.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><br><p>Based on scarcity, Africa has the greater need for addresses.
Economists describe markets as a way to distribute resources
according to their best and highest use. Since that's hard to
quantify, they use money as a metric for best and highest use.
Africa has the greatest need, and addresses there would serve
better (potentially more people) than elsewhere. <br></p></div></blockquote><div>+1 and I dont dispute that. We need more.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p>
</p>
<p>If the only supply is within the region, the prices will be much
higher than outside the region. If in a year IPv4 addresses are
US$30 each, they could be US$50 each in Africa, which makes them
unaffordable for many companies. Prices would be the same
everywhere if all regions allowed inter-RIR transfers. But there
still isn't enough supply.</p></div></blockquote><div>Another school of thought would argue that since Africa is the only place with the most demand for IPv4 since places like ARIN dont need them, then brokers like yourself would have Africa as the only place to supply available IPv4 space and we will dictate the IPv4 price else we deploy IPv6. Simple as that. <br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>A company can save money on IPv4 addresses and CGN by deploying
IPv6. But it's too late to deploy IPv6 before Afrinic runs out of
addresses. Addresses will run out, and the market will not be able
to satisfy the need for addresses.</p></div></blockquote><div>Since I am involved in real network builds, the idea that its too later to deploy IPv6 is absurd. We are deploying it and and we see a significant growth in traffic in continent.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p> ISPs and mobile carriers
everywhere in Africa will have to deploy CGN, and at higher
density than elsewhere in the world. The cost for businesses to
connect will be much higher, since they need inbound access and
therefore unique IPv4 addresses. African Internet deployment will
stall, all because IPv6 has not been deployed and there is no way
to get more IPv4 addresses.<br></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Wrong. SAFARICOM in Kenya will tell you otherwise and other Telecom are currently deploying IPv6 in the continent and we have such plans underway and this will change sooner than you think/assume.</div><div><br></div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p>
</p>
<p>Are those the kind of numbers you were looking for?</p>
<p>Lee</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>[1]
<a class="gmail-m_3352454375805756829moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://via.hypothes.is/https://www.internetgovernance.org/wp-content/uploads/IPv6-Migration-Study-final-report.pdf" target="_blank">https://via.hypothes.is/https://www.internetgovernance.org/wp-content/uploads/IPv6-Migration-Study-final-report.pdf</a>
<br>
</p>
<p>[2] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa</a></p>
<p>[3] <a href="https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/NRO-Statistics-2019-Q1.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/NRO-Statistics-2019-Q1.pdf</a></p>
<p>[4] <a href="http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html</a></p>
<p>[5] <a href="https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats1.htm" target="_blank">https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats1.htm</a>
<br>
</p>
<p>[6] <a href="https://wearesocial.com/blog/2019/01/digital-2019-global-internet-use-accelerates" target="_blank">https://wearesocial.com/blog/2019/01/digital-2019-global-internet-use-accelerates</a></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="gmail-m_3352454375805756829moz-cite-prefix">On 6/28/19 9:30 AM, Noah wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 4:17
PM Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="en-KE">
<div class="gmail-m_3352454375805756829gmail-m_9093594480334309743WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Are you not
asking for the identical thing?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">You have
absolutely zero empirical data about how much space
will supposedly flow off the continent – and I
strongly dispute that it will – because I don’t
believe there is enough of it on the continent as it
is to even serve current needs.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">We’re being
asked to refuse support for as policy based on fear
mongering that has no evidence to support said fears</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is historical evidence to show that other resources
(non-INR) have left the continent to the benefit of other
regions but Africa. Show them the $$$ and they will dance.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I had a very interesting discussion with one of the IPv$
brokers and and he surely cant wait to trade some of the
space in our region. I will not go into the details of that
discussion but it was enough for me to personally stay firm
to my opposition of any policy that would open room for
resources meant to be used in our region being traded fast
due to economic reasons beyond the real purpose they were
meant for which is to help build the African Internet
Infrastructure. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You think its fear mongering, but I can assure you that
money is money and people dont play around when it comes to
money.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Noah<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="en-KE">
<div class="gmail-m_3352454375805756829gmail-m_9093594480334309743WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Andrew</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-KE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Boubakar Barry <<a href="mailto:boubakarbarry@gmail.com" target="_blank">boubakarbarry@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 28 June 2019 16:01<br>
<b>To:</b> Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank">noah@neo.co.tz</a>>;
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>>;
RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR
policy proposals - AFRINIC needs this policy now!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 11:29
AM Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">You’re
asking for the impossible – because to get
that you’d need to go to all the brokers
(I assume)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, we jump into the dark,
with no parachute (data would have helped
somehow), all eyes closed? Keeping them open in
these circumstances won't help anyway.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Boubakar</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank">noah@neo.co.tz</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 28 June 2019 14:17<br>
<b>To:</b> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4
Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC needs
this policy now!</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-KE"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="en-KE">So Jordi,<br>
<br>
I still oppose this policy with
strongest terms possible. I still
believe IPv4 space will leave our
region so fast when holders of
Idle space who are yet to put them
to good use as was
allocated/assigned will trade them
for some dollars rather than
return them to AfriNIC. What we
need is a policy that would
discourage IPv4 from being
transferred out of the region
because of attractive prices of
IPv$ but rather encourage more
space coming into the region.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="en-KE">We already have a
transfer policy that can facilitate
internal transfers withing our
region and I am keen of getting a
report from AfriNIC on how this is
going.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="en-KE">@Jordi, please also share
some statistical numbers of available
IPv4 space that would actually come
into our region so that we can work
with figures rather than assumptions.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-KE">Noah</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-KE"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-KE"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-KE">On
Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 7:01 PM JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi again Sylvain,</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">I’m very thankful
for your inputs!</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">We need to make
sure that others also
participate!</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">See below in-line.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">El 21/6/19
23:15, "Sylvain BAYA" <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="ES">Hi all,</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">Le vendredi 21 juin
2019, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD
<<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi Sylvain,</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">I want to
thank you, I guess we won
a “strong” contributor to
policy discussions! (I
recall your name from
previous discussions, but
you’re now more active,
which is what I wish from
every one). </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">:-D ...please
don't expose me too much Jordi
;-)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">I'm just trying to
do my best...i'm not any kind of
expert :'-(</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Now I realized that
you were not on-site, pity!</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> See below,
in-line.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Saludos,</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">El 20/6/19
22:37, "Sylvain BAYA"
<<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">Hi all, </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">Please see,
inline, below...</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"><br>
Le jeudi 20 juin 2019,
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via
RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi
Sylvain,</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Sorry
the email was sent
before I finished it
…</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Responding
below, in-line.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="ES">Regards,</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="ES">Jordi</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="ES">@jordipalet</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="ES">El
20/6/19 15:05,
"Sylvain BAYA"
<<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang="ES">Hi all,</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="ES"><br>
Le jeudi 20 juin
2019, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via RPD
<<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US">As
said, this text is
redundant (see
specific text
below my
signature), but I
don't mind to have
explicit text if
this facilitate
the community to
reach consensus.<br>
<br>
Here is my
proposal, again,
please comment
about this ASAP,
so we can submit a
new version
already, instead
of waiting to be
closer to the next
meeting. This way
we can ensure that
we get on time the
staff impact
analysis, in case
something else
need to be
amended.<br>
<br>
"The Inter-RIR
transfers will be
automatically
suspended in case
the balance
between IPv4
out-going and
in-coming
addresses becomes
cero." </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US">Jordi,</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US">...typos
on “zero” ?</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Yeah
… my spelling
checker often
confuses English
and Spanish!</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Anyway,
here is a better
version, because
this balance is
actually “cero” at
the start of the
implementation, so
the text may be
misleading, we
need to define . </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">Alright !</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">I like the
new visage of this
policy proposal because
i really appreciate the
way you are leading the
discussions around it. </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Believe me,
that I always try to
heard everybody position
and accommodate as much
as possible, my own
thinking/knowledge and
the text to that (or
convincing other if I
believe they have a
wrong vision). This is
the way to reach
consensus. </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">Go ahead on this
way ! i declare my support for
such an approach, because i'm
personaly sharing a similar
approach.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">Hopefully other
participants will also share it.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">While
contributing to this
thread, what i want is
to be sure that this
policy proposal could be
really beneficial to
AFRINIC
region|community.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Same as me,
again, the right thing
to do.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="EN-US">“The
Inter-RIR transfers
will only be enabled
once AFRINIC enter
into Exhaustion
Phase 2 (<a href="http://5.4.3.2" target="_blank">5.4.3.2</a>).
The Inter-RIR
transfers will be
automatically
suspended in case
the number of
out-going IPv4
addresses exceeds
the in-coming ones
by six consecutive
months.”</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">This
version is a good
starting point. Thanks.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">I
understand it like this
:</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">* This
Policy Validity Starting
Point : Exhaustion Phase
2</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">* Initial
point : balance of zero
(nothing in|out)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">* First
auto-stop point : when
the in/out balance
becomes down</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">..* After
06 consecutive months
{seems to be not
interesting for me}</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">..* Even
02 consecutive months is
not really interesting,
because we miss an #x
amount (or %) of
resource (IPv4) limit to
not reach at any time
(without any mention of
#y consecutive months)
to reduce an unwilling
risk. </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">This
policy shall be able,
maybe, to stop a
transaction (in course)
which could conduct us
out of a specific low
acceptable in/out
balance. So think about
it again please.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">This is not
possible, I believe,
unless someone discovers
a “magic way to write it
down” (which I can’t see
now). Anyway, I’m still
trying to think
something before ending
this email … </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">...quite difficult
for sure :-)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">It's simply
confirming us that to reach the
*goal* of this (and other)
policy proposal, we need to
think deeply on details. Other
meaning : we need more active
volunteers|participants engaged
with sincere contributions.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">*<b>EXACTLY!</b>*
Meetings time is precious and we
aren’t allowed to modify the
text of the proposals on-site,
we need inputs way ahead!</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">I’ve not
personally been involved
in transfers, but I
understand the process
and transfers don’t
happen “in the second”.
There are documents to
review, justification to
be reviewed by the two
RIRs, contracts to be
signed, payments to be
done (via an escrow),
etc. It is a matter of
several days or weeks. </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">Thanks for these
clarifications.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">It may
happen that in the
middle of a month,
several “negotiations”
for transfers are
running, and some of
them in one or the other
direction may reach or
not in time for the end
of that month. That’s
why I’m suggesting a
number of months. </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">...to my
knowledge, to better text this
situation (and reach the *goal*)
we must considere that the
transfer is started when the
parties have sent a request to
the staff. </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">What we can also
do is to add a new section with
advices for those who will need
to start a inter RIR transfer
procedure. On that section, we
shall explain why they must not
take more than one (?), two or
three months to complete the
pre-process (b2b negociations).
They shall know and understand
the risk to come too late to the
staff to request a transfer ;
because the negociation phase
took too much time... :-/</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">I don’t think this
is possible. Transfers have a
lot of “business talks” among
the parties. Only once the
parties have reached an
agreement, they need to go into
the process. You could do on the
other way around, it can be a
mix of both. I don’t think the
community must provide a rule on
that, because this has not been
done in other RIRs. If we try to
setup our own rule, then our
policy will have mismatches with
the other policies and then we
may be in the situation that
they are not reciprocal, or the
existing procedures in the other
regions need to be re-worked,
why they are going to do it, now
that we are the last one?.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">If the
staff tries to evaluate
the transfers at a
single point in time, it
may be misleading as
some operations in the
opposite direction may
be being processed.
</span><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="ES">The RIRs may
have an “alert” of a
possible transfer,
depending on the
direction, I don’t know
if the exiting
coordination systems
allow them to check
those (this will sort
out the problem), but
still will not be
precise, as some other
folks may be
“negotiating” a transfer
and have not yet
informed the relevant
RIRs until the parties
agree.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">Ok, we need a
clarification from the staff.
But before that, i propose
something below to address the
problem...</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="ES">If we stop the
policy immediately the
balance becomes “bad”
for AFRINIC, then a
transfer in the other
direction will not be
able to happen. You see
the point.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">Ok you are right !
But let me try other
possibility|solution i see : are
we still prioritising incoming
transfers ? :-)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">To be sure, i
think we can include a similar
(to the following) text (about
transfer procedure) : </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">“Initiators of a
transfer must start the
procedure earlier by submitting
their request. The transfer
procedure is concluded after a
cycle of $four months, devided
in two periods of $two months
for each. Initiators submit
their case to the staff and wait
for the staff to give their
conclusion at least $two months
after the "submissions period"
and not more than $four months
(including the "verification
period"). The staff will collect
the cases (submissions|requests)
during the "submissions period".
The staff can start to study the
cases immediately, after
receiving them, until the end of
the "verification period" which
is coinciding with the next
"submission period"; while
collecting other cases. Those in
line with the CPM (policy
compliant) at the end of the
correspondent "verification
period". The staff should focus
to the goal : keep the in/out
balance exceding. Incoming
transfer submissions shall be
prioritised and treated
separately.”</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">I don’t think this
will work, as I just explained a
few reasons above. In principle
I will not support this.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="EN-US">With this bit
of text, i'm trying to solve a
problem you raised above.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">It does, at least,
the following : </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">* To change the
approach in considering that </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">* We can
considerably diminish the risk
by allowing the staff to study
the transfer submissions (cases)
during the same dedicated
"verifications period" (even
just during $one month if
possible) and
</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">* Inform all the
requestors only after the
"verifications period"
</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">* With the *goal*
balance in mind :-)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">* Special
treathment for incoming
transfers ;-)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">* A cycle of four
months within two equal periods
for submissions and
verifications
</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">* More control of
the balance </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">* Focus : *goal*
balance</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">* ...</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">See below … it is
not needed. I think, just you
misunderstood my point 4.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">We need to
“take a bit of risk”,
considering that the
real risk, looking at
the numbers I’ve
presented is really
low. </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">I agree, but just
a *bit of risk* :-)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">I wasn't able to
follow your first presentation
during the PPM (Public Policy
Meeting), just the Hijacking
one. Please share the slides of
all your policy proposal
presentations.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">And now I realize
this is part of the problem for
your questions. Please, pause
this discussion until you’re
able to see the video of my
presentation and the slides! I
guess then you may change a bit
your view about the risk, etc.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">I already asked the
staff (previous email) to make
sure they are published
tomorrow. I think they deserve
the break today :-)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Remember
that “nobody” from
AFRINIC is forced to
sell. Who will sell?
Those that for example,
reduce or close the
business, or those that
deploy IPv6, etc.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> Ok it walk samely
for incoming and outgoing
transfers. Considering that we
have a seller and a buyer on
both side transfers.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="ES">Who will buy?
Those that go to
AFRINIC, ask for more,
can’t get all what they
need, and try to get the
rest of their needs via
transfers.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">What is the
logic here? Why ARIN is
the major donator to all
the other RIRs?</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">...to what i
recall [1] they still have too
much unused IPv4 addresses.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">If we don’t
take a risk, we lose.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">...i'm ok with
that, but let's try to find the
lowest risk :-)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">This
means that if one
month there are “more
addresses going out”,
it happens again the
next month, and it
happens again by a
third month and so on,
then is suspended.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">...so
monthly public reports
should be needed (for
the community to
follow-up and for more
transparency) ?</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">If yes,
let's clearly state|text
it also.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">I believe
there is already a
public AFRINIC reporting
of the Inter-RIR
transfers, so we will
see this reported ASAP
any transfer is
completed I think.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">Can someone share
an uri ?</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">I think we must
insert this requirement to the
relevant section of the CPM, if
not existent.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">If this is
not the case (can please
the staff confirm?), I
fully agree (for both
Inter and Intra-RIR) and
will add a specific text
so they are reported,
not just monthly, but
with each completed
transfer.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">You are welcome !
Thanks :-)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Which this
web page, any member,
the board, etc., can
tell the staff at any
point, if they don’t
realize by themselves,
“hey what is going on
here? Are we good with
the transfers?”.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">Yes, transparency
and more power to the community
;-)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">I’ve
also added a
condition to make
sure that this
policy only starts
once we are in the
next exhaustion
phase.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US">So,
you shall consider
that, if AFRINIC
service|community
doesn't gain
anything in the
balance this policy
should not be
needed...</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US">And
that should be
clearly stated.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="EN-US">I
agree with that, but
I don’t think we
need to put that in
the policy text,
this should be in
the text of the
policy
justification.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">...wasn't
the point here.
Apologize but English is
not my first tongue. </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">What i was
(trying)
advising|suggesting is
to ensure to text it the
clearest possible ; in
order to remove any
ambiguity.
</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">I'm glad
that you have seen, by
yourself, that there was
a problem with the first
zero state.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Got it,
thanks! And nothing to
excuse!</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US">Note
that in order to
make it simpler,
I've used a text
that instead of
talking about %, is
stating that the
balance of in/out is
reached. This way we
ensure that the
total number of the
"region IPv4
addresses" never can
go down regarding
the actual figures,
so Africa never will
lose addresses. Do
you think this is
good enough?</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US">Ok
after policing this,
it seems to be
necessary to clearly
state, *“policily”*,
that the staff must
follow-up
(automatically) the
in/out balance, with
regular (automated)
public reports and a
special (auto) stop
report (for the zero
state).</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">
<span lang="EN-US">I'm
not sure how to
"policy-ze" this
idea. Perhaps with a
separate policy ?</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="EN-US">I’m
not completely sure
to understand 100%
what you mean, but
let me try anyway:
Staff is mandated to
follow the policies.
So, during the
implementation the
staff will make the
necessary provisions
so they get an alarm
when the balance of
in-coming vs
out-going addresses
becomes cero. It may
be done
automatically
anyway, but at least
they should get an
“alarm”. The
operational details
about “how” to
implement this are
outside of the
policy scope.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">Ok i am in
accord with the logic of
separation between
policy rules and their
operational
implementations. I don't
want us to “policy-ze”
the implementation phase
of any policy :-)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">But you
probably miss something
in my above suggestion. </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES">The point
is that, if you don't
clearly ask, via a
policy, for a regular
(public) report (for
example) from the staff,
you could not be sure to
get it when it shall be
needed. Because, without
a specific policy
provision, it will be
just out of their
duties...</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Let’s try
it again, based on all
the discussion (the
numbers are just to
split the text now, they
will be correctly placed
in the relevant part of
the policy proposal when
we “reach consensus”
about this text:</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<div style="border-width:3pt medium;border-style:dotted none;padding:1pt 0cm;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:71.4pt">
<span lang="ES">1.</span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="ES">
</span><span lang="EN-US">Each time
a transfer is
completed, the
relevant,
non-confidential
information will be
automatically
published in a
specific web page,
including at least:
Date of the transfer,
transferred addresses,
source organization
and RIR, destination
organization and RIR.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:71.4pt">
<span lang="ES">2.</span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="ES">
</span><span lang="EN-US">The
Inter-RIR transfers
will only be enabled
once AFRINIC enter
into Exhaustion Phase
2 (<a href="http://5.4.3.2" target="_blank">5.4.3.2</a>).</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:71.4pt">
<span lang="ES">3.</span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="ES">
</span><span lang="EN-US">The
Inter-RIR transfers
will be automatically
suspended in case the
number of outgoing
IPv4 addresses exceeds
the incoming ones by
six consecutive
months.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:71.4pt">
<span lang="ES">4.</span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="ES">
</span><span lang="EN-US">The staff
can provisionally
suspend any suspicious
operation that creates
a big unbalance
against AFRINIC, until
the board takes a
decision.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="EN-US">See
point 4. If there is any
suspicious unbalance,
the suspension temporary
suspension of *<b>that</b>*
operation protects our
pool of addresses, for a
few days (I guess the
board in that case
should call for a
decision by email or by
conference call), and
meanwhile, it can be
observed if other
“incoming” operations
will restore the
balance.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">Possible solution,
thanks for the effort you
produced above. But there is
still more than acceptable risk
on it (including point 4) ;
because the next new transfer
request can come after the *few*
days of suspension.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">The point here is
that the staff is still able to
suspend any suspicious
operation. Not just one. Is not
that clear my text? (any)</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="EN-US">Please look how
to also consider the alternative
solution i have proposed above.
</span><span lang="ES">I don't
need you to keep that text as it
is, but to use it to figure how
it could be merged with yours
and reduce the risk (no
suspension with it).</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">__</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">[1]: MIT and their
8 million IPv4 addresses – <a href="https://www.techspot.com/news/69055-mit-unload-8-million-ipv4-addresses-fund-ipv6.html" target="_blank">
https://www.techspot.com/news/69055-mit-unload-8-million-ipv4-addresses-fund-ipv6.html</a></span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">Friendly,</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">--sb.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="EN-US">I
really believe this is
not needed, it can be
done applying the bylaws
(very recently ARIN
board suspended in
emergency a policy, so
it is a good
demonstration that this
works even if is not in
the policy) but I’m
happy to keep this text
if this means that we
are more unconcerned
this way.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">What do you
think? </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Thanks!</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">[...]</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES"> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang="ES">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">
RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> </span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="ES"><br>
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if partially, including attached
files, is strictly prohibited, will
be considered a criminal offense, so
you must reply to the original
sender to inform about this
communication and delete it.</span><span lang="en-KE"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="en-KE">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="gmail-m_3352454375805756829mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="gmail-m_3352454375805756829moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="gmail-m_3352454375805756829moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="gmail-m_3352454375805756829moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>