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<p>Hi all,</p>
Le vendredi 21 juin 2019, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Hi Sylvain,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">I want
to thank you, I guess we won a “strong” contributor to
policy discussions! (I recall your name from previous
discussions, but you’re now more active, which is what I
wish from every one). </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>:-D ...please don't expose me too much Jordi ;-)</div>
<div>I'm just trying to do my best...i'm not any kind of expert :'-(</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> See
below, in-line.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Saludos,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 20/6/19
22:37, "Sylvain BAYA" <<a
href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi all, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Please see,
inline, below...</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
Le jeudi 20 juin 2019, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :</p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">Hi Sylvain,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">Sorry the
email was sent before I finished it …</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
lang="EN-US">Responding below, in-line.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">El
20/6/19 15:05, "Sylvain BAYA" <<a
href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com"
target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:70.8pt">Hi all,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
Le jeudi 20 juin 2019, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD
<<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :</p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">As said, this text is redundant
(see specific text below my signature), but I
don't mind to have explicit text if this
facilitate the community to reach consensus.<br>
<br>
Here is my proposal, again, please comment about
this ASAP, so we can submit a new version
already, instead of waiting to be closer to the
next meeting. This way we can ensure that we get
on time the staff impact analysis, in case
something else need to be amended.<br>
<br>
"The Inter-RIR transfers will be automatically
suspended in case the balance between IPv4
out-going and in-coming addresses becomes
cero." </span></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Jordi,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">...typos on “zero” ?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">Yeah … my
spelling checker often confuses English and
Spanish!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">Anyway,
here is a better version, because this balance
is actually “cero” at the start of the
implementation, so the text may be misleading,
we need to define . </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Alright !</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I like the
new visage of this policy proposal because i really
appreciate the way you are leading the discussions
around it. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Believe me, that I always try to heard
everybody position and accommodate as much as
possible, my own thinking/knowledge and the text to
that (or convincing other if I believe they have a
wrong vision). This is the way to reach consensus. </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Go ahead on this way ! i declare my support for such an
approach, because i'm personaly sharing a similar approach.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hopefully other participants will also share it.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">While
contributing to this thread, what i want is to be sure
that this policy proposal could be really beneficial to
AFRINIC region|community.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Same as me, again, the right thing to do.</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">“The Inter-RIR transfers will only be
enabled once AFRINIC enter into Exhaustion Phase 2
(5.4.3.2). The Inter-RIR transfers will be
automatically suspended in case the number of
out-going IPv4 addresses exceeds the in-coming
ones by six consecutive months.”</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">This
version is a good starting point. Thanks.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I
understand it like this :</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">* This
Policy Validity Starting Point : Exhaustion Phase 2</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">* Initial
point : balance of zero (nothing in|out)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">* First
auto-stop point : when the in/out balance becomes down</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">..* After
06 consecutive months {seems to be not interesting for
me}</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">..* Even
02 consecutive months is not really interesting, because
we miss an #x amount (or %) of resource (IPv4) limit to
not reach at any time (without any mention of #y
consecutive months) to reduce an unwilling risk. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">This
policy shall be able, maybe, to stop a transaction (in
course) which could conduct us out of a specific low
acceptable in/out balance. So think about it again
please.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">This is not possible, I believe, unless
someone discovers a “magic way to write it down”
(which I can’t see now). Anyway, I’m still trying to
think something before ending this email … </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...quite difficult for sure :-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's simply confirming us that to reach the *goal* of this (and
other) policy proposal, we need to think deeply on details. Other
meaning : we need more active volunteers|participants engaged with
sincere contributions.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">I’ve not personally been involved in
transfers, but I understand the process and transfers
don’t happen “in the second”. There are documents to
review, justification to be reviewed by the two RIRs,
contracts to be signed, payments to be done (via an
escrow), etc. It is a matter of several days or
weeks. </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for these clarifications.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">It may happen that in the middle of a
month, several “negotiations” for transfers are
running, and some of them in one or the other
direction may reach or not in time for the end of that
month. That’s why I’m suggesting a number of months. </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...to my knowledge, to better text this situation (and reach
the *goal*) we must considere that the transfer is started when
the parties have sent a request to the staff. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What we can also do is to add a new section with advices for
those who will need to start a inter RIR transfer procedure. On
that section, we shall explain why they must not take more than
one (?), two or three months to complete the pre-process (b2b
negociations). They shall know and understand the risk to come too
late to the staff to request a transfer ; because the negociation
phase took too much time... :-/</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt">If the
staff tries to evaluate the transfers at a single
point in time, it may be misleading as some operations
in the opposite direction may be being processed. The
RIRs may have an “alert” of a possible transfer,
depending on the direction, I don’t know if the
exiting coordination systems allow them to check those
(this will sort out the problem), but still will not
be precise, as some other folks may be “negotiating” a
transfer and have not yet informed the relevant RIRs
until the parties agree.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ok, we need a clarification from the staff. But before that, i
propose something below to address the problem...</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt">If we
stop the policy immediately the balance becomes “bad”
for AFRINIC, then a transfer in the other direction
will not be able to happen. You see the point.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ok you are right ! But let me try other possibility|solution i
see : are we still prioritising incoming transfers ? :-)</div>
<div>To be sure, i think we can include a similar (to the following)
text (about transfer procedure) : </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>“Initiators of a transfer must start the procedure earlier by
submitting their request. The transfer procedure is concluded
after a cycle of $four months, devided in two periods of $two
months for each. Initiators submit their case to the staff and
wait for the staff to give their conclusion at least $two months
after the "submissions period" and not more than $four months
(including the "verification period"). The staff will collect the
cases (submissions|requests) during the "submissions period". The
staff can start to study the cases immediately, after receiving
them, until the end of the "verification period" which is
coinciding with the next "submission period"; while collecting
other cases. Those in line with the CPM (policy compliant) at the
end of the correspondent "verification period". The staff should
focus to the goal : keep the in/out balance exceding. Incoming
transfer submissions shall be prioritised and treated separately.”</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With this bit of text, i'm trying to solve a problem you raised
above.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It does, at least, the following : </div>
<div>* To change the approach in considering that </div>
<div>* We can considerably diminish the risk by allowing the staff
to study the transfer submissions (cases) during the same
dedicated "verifications period" (even just during $one month if
possible) and <br>
</div>
<div>* Inform all the requestors only after the "verifications
period" <br>
</div>
<div>* With the *goal* balance in mind :-)</div>
<div>* Special treathment for incoming transfers ;-)</div>
<div>* A cycle of four months within two equal periods for
submissions and verifications <br>
</div>
<div>* More control of the balance </div>
<div>* Focus : *goal* balance</div>
<div>* ...<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">We need to “take a bit of risk”,
considering that the real risk, looking at the numbers
I’ve presented is really low. </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree, but just a *bit of risk* :-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I wasn't able to follow your first presentation during the PPM
(Public Policy Meeting), just the Hijacking one. Please share the
slides of all your policy proposal presentations.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Remember that “nobody” from AFRINIC is
forced to sell. Who will sell? Those that for example,
reduce or close the business, or those that deploy
IPv6, etc.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Ok it walk samely for incoming and outgoing transfers.
Considering that we have a seller and a buyer on both side
transfers.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt">Who will
buy? Those that go to AFRINIC, ask for more, can’t get
all what they need, and try to get the rest of their
needs via transfers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">What is the logic here? Why ARIN is the
major donator to all the other RIRs?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...to what i recall [1] they still have too much unused IPv4
addresses.<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">If we don’t take a risk, we lose.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...i'm ok with that, but let's try to find the lowest risk :-)</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">This means
that if one month there are “more addresses going
out”, it happens again the next month, and it
happens again by a third month and so on, then is
suspended.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">...so
monthly public reports should be needed (for the
community to follow-up and for more transparency) ?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">If yes,
let's clearly state|text it also.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">I believe there is already a public
AFRINIC reporting of the Inter-RIR transfers, so we
will see this reported ASAP any transfer is completed
I think.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Can someone share an uri ?</div>
<div>I think we must insert this requirement to the relevant section
of the CPM, if not existent.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">If this is not the case (can please the
staff confirm?), I fully agree (for both Inter and
Intra-RIR) and will add a specific text so they are
reported, not just monthly, but with each completed
transfer.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You are welcome ! Thanks :-)</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Which this web page, any member, the
board, etc., can tell the staff at any point, if they
don’t realize by themselves, “hey what is going on
here? Are we good with the transfers?”.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, transparency and more power to the community ;-)</div>
<div> </div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">I’ve also
added a condition to make sure that this policy
only starts once we are in the next exhaustion
phase.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">So, you shall consider that, if
AFRINIC service|community doesn't gain anything in
the balance this policy should not be needed...</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">And that should be clearly stated.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">I agree with that, but I don’t think
we need to put that in the policy text, this
should be in the text of the policy justification.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">...wasn't
the point here. Apologize but English is not my first
tongue. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">What i was
(trying) advising|suggesting is to ensure to text it the
clearest possible ; in order to remove any ambiguity. </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I'm glad
that you have seen, by yourself, that there was a
problem with the first zero state.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Got it, thanks! And nothing to excuse!</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Note that in order to make it
simpler, I've used a text that instead of talking
about %, is stating that the balance of in/out is
reached. This way we ensure that the total number
of the "region IPv4 addresses" never can go down
regarding the actual figures, so Africa never will
lose addresses. Do you think this is good enough?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Ok after policing this, it seems to
be necessary to clearly state, *“policily”*, that
the staff must follow-up (automatically) the
in/out balance, with regular (automated) public
reports and a special (auto) stop report (for the
zero state).</span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">I'm not sure how to "policy-ze" this
idea. Perhaps with a separate policy ?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">I’m not completely sure to understand
100% what you mean, but let me try anyway: Staff
is mandated to follow the policies. So, during the
implementation the staff will make the necessary
provisions so they get an alarm when the balance
of in-coming vs out-going addresses becomes cero.
It may be done automatically anyway, but at least
they should get an “alarm”. The operational
details about “how” to implement this are outside
of the policy scope.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Ok i am in
accord with the logic of separation between policy rules
and their operational implementations. I don't want us
to “policy-ze” the implementation phase of any policy
:-)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">But you
probably miss something in my above suggestion. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">The point
is that, if you don't clearly ask, via a policy, for a
regular (public) report (for example) from the staff,
you could not be sure to get it when it shall be needed.
Because, without a specific policy provision, it will be
just out of their duties...</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Let’s try it again, based on all the
discussion (the numbers are just to split the text
now, they will be correctly placed in the relevant
part of the policy proposal when we “reach consensus”
about this text:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<ol start="1" type="1">
<li style="border:none;padding:0cm"><span lang="EN-US">Each
time a transfer is completed, the relevant,
non-confidential information will be automatically
published in a specific web page, including at
least: Date of the transfer, transferred
addresses, source organization and RIR,
destination organization and RIR.</span></li>
<li style="border:none;padding:0cm"><span lang="EN-US">The
Inter-RIR transfers will only be enabled once
AFRINIC enter into Exhaustion Phase 2 (5.4.3.2).</span></li>
<li style="border:none;padding:0cm"><span lang="EN-US">The
Inter-RIR transfers will be automatically
suspended in case the number of outgoing IPv4
addresses exceeds the incoming ones by six
consecutive months.</span></li>
<li style="border:none;padding:0cm"><span lang="EN-US">The
staff can provisionally suspend any suspicious
operation that creates a big unbalance against
AFRINIC, until the board takes a decision.</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">See point 4. If
there is any suspicious unbalance, the suspension
temporary suspension of *<b>that</b>* operation
protects our pool of addresses, for a few days (I
guess the board in that case should call for a
decision by email or by conference call), and
meanwhile, it can be observed if other “incoming”
operations will restore the balance.</span></p>
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<div>Possible solution, thanks for the effort you produced above.
But there is still more than acceptable risk on it (including
point 4) ; because the next new transfer request can come after
the *few* days of suspension.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please look how to also consider the alternative solution i
have proposed above. I don't need you to keep that text as it is,
but to use it to figure how it could be merged with yours and
reduce the risk (no suspension with it).</div>
<div>__</div>
<div>[1]: MIT and their 8 million IPv4 addresses – <a
href="https://www.techspot.com/news/69055-mit-unload-8-million-ipv4-addresses-fund-ipv6.html"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.techspot.com/news/69055-mit-unload-8-million-ipv4-addresses-fund-ipv6.html</a></div>
<div><br>
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<div>Friendly,</div>
<div>--sb.<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I really believe
this is not needed, it can be done applying the bylaws
(very recently ARIN board suspended in emergency a
policy, so it is a good demonstration that this works
even if is not in the policy) but I’m happy to keep
this text if this means that we are more unconcerned
this way.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">What do you think? <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Thanks!</span></p>
[...]<br>
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