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Hi all,
<div>Please see, inline, below...</div>
<div><br>
Le jeudi 20 juin 2019, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Hi Sylvain,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Sorry the email was sent before I finished
it …</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Responding
below, in-line.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El
20/6/19 15:05, "Sylvain BAYA" <<a
href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi all,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
Le jeudi 20 juin 2019, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :</p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">As said, this text is redundant (see
specific text below my signature), but I don't mind to
have explicit text if this facilitate the community to
reach consensus.<br>
<br>
Here is my proposal, again, please comment about this
ASAP, so we can submit a new version already, instead
of waiting to be closer to the next meeting. This way
we can ensure that we get on time the staff impact
analysis, in case something else need to be amended.<br>
<br>
"The Inter-RIR transfers will be automatically
suspended in case the balance between IPv4 out-going
and in-coming addresses becomes cero." </span></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Jordi,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">...typos on “zero” ?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Yeah … my spelling checker often confuses
English and Spanish!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Anyway, here is a better version, because
this balance is actually “cero” at the start of the
implementation, so the text may be misleading, we need
to define . </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alright !</div>
<div>I like the new visage of this policy proposal because i
really appreciate the way you are leading the discussions around
it. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>While contributing to this thread, what i want is to be sure
that this policy proposal could be really beneficial to AFRINIC
region|community.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">“The Inter-RIR
transfers will only be enabled once AFRINIC enter into
Exhaustion Phase 2 (5.4.3.2). The Inter-RIR transfers
will be automatically suspended in case the number of
out-going IPv4 addresses exceeds the in-coming ones by
six consecutive months.”</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This version is a good starting point. Thanks.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I understand it like this :</div>
<div>* This Policy Validity Starting Point : Exhaustion Phase 2</div>
<div>* Initial point : balance of zero (nothing in|out)</div>
<div>* First auto-stop point : when the in/out balance becomes
down</div>
<div>..* After 06 consecutive months {seems to be not interesting
for me}</div>
<div>..* Even 02 consecutive months is not really interesting,
because we miss an #x amount (or %) of resource (IPv4) limit to
not reach at any time (without any mention of #y consecutive
months) to reduce an unwilling risk. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This policy shall be able, maybe, to stop a transaction (in
course) which could conduct us out of a specific low acceptable
in/out balance. So think about it again please.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">This means that if one month there are “more
addresses going out”, it happens again the next month, and
it happens again by a third month and so on, then is
suspended.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...so monthly public reports should be needed (for the
community to follow-up and for more transparency) ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If yes, let's clearly state|text it also.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">I’ve also added a condition to make sure
that this policy only starts once we are in the next
exhaustion phase.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">So, you shall consider that, if AFRINIC
service|community doesn't gain anything in the balance
this policy should not be needed...</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">And that should be clearly stated.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I agree with that,
but I don’t think we need to put that in the policy
text, this should be in the text of the policy
justification.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...wasn't the point here. Apologize but English is not my
first tongue. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What i was (trying) advising|suggesting is to ensure to text
it the clearest possible ; in order to remove any ambiguity. <br>
</div>
<div>I'm glad that you have seen, by yourself, that there was a
problem with the first zero state.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Note that in order to make it simpler, I've
used a text that instead of talking about %, is stating
that the balance of in/out is reached. This way we
ensure that the total number of the "region IPv4
addresses" never can go down regarding the actual
figures, so Africa never will lose addresses. Do you
think this is good enough?</span></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Ok after policing this, it seems to be
necessary to clearly state, *“policily”*, that the staff
must follow-up (automatically) the in/out balance, with
regular (automated) public reports and a special (auto)
stop report (for the zero state).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">I'm not sure how to "policy-ze" this idea.
Perhaps with a separate policy ?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I’m not completely
sure to understand 100% what you mean, but let me try
anyway: Staff is mandated to follow the policies. So,
during the implementation the staff will make the
necessary provisions so they get an alarm when the
balance of in-coming vs out-going addresses becomes
cero. It may be done automatically anyway, but at least
they should get an “alarm”. The operational details
about “how” to implement this are outside of the policy
scope.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ok i am in accord with the logic of separation between policy
rules and their operational implementations. I don't want us to
“policy-ze” the implementation phase of any policy :-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But you probably miss something in my above suggestion. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The point is that, if you don't clearly ask, via a policy,
for a regular (public) report (for example) from the staff, you
could not be sure to get it when it shall be needed. Because,
without a specific policy provision, it will be just out of
their duties...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hope this clarifies.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Friendly,</div>
<div>--sb.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Friendly,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">--sb.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
lang="EN-US">[...] </span><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Regards,
Sylvain B.
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.chretiennement.org"><http://www.chretiennement.org></a>
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