<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><br></div><div>Hello Jordi,</div><div><br></div><div>You still don't see the contradiction? Please review what you wrote.</div><div><br></div><div>A non native english speaker should go for an easy English and be less pedantic.</div><div><br></div><div>There are many other non english speakers like you, struggling over there to understand and contribute. This is another strong motivation for a good moderation ( organise the discussions, make sure, people use easy english, provide regular summary of discussions...) so that everyone has the same understanding and do not fall under individual interpretation of the language....)</div><div><br></div><div>PDP key principles: bottom-up, inclusiveness, openness and transparency is well known and no moderation shall go against them. </div><div><br></div><div>Moderation's definition of PDP-BIS can be found in the PDP document through chairs actions at each stage of proposal lifecycle, and in the working group operation guidelines which conforms to BCP25 definition.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On your last point, coauthors of PDP-BIS have answered all your mails, including the November's one you referred to, even those not all mails require response.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>HTH</div><div>Komi</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br>Le 25 mai 2019 à 19:24, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> a écrit :<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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--></style><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Arnaud,</span><span lang="ES-TRAD" style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 25/5/19 14:57, "Arnaud AMELINA" <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi Jordi<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Le mer. 22 mai 2019 à 13:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi Komi, all,<br><br><br> Many got lost and confused easily in the unmoderated flow of mails.<br><br>Big disagreement here. A PDP, by definition is an open and NOT MODERATED PROCESS AT ALL. It must be dynamic, and if some people don't participate, is not good, but that should not preclude the moderation of those that actually participate.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Can we be more serious in these discussions about the PDP with less contradictions and inconsistencies?<br>What argument are you really making with the statement above?<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">I don’t see the contradiction here, unless I said something broken, not being native English. What I’m saying is that the PDP and the corresponding list MUST NOT be moderated at all. I will love everyone participating, and that must be the goal. A more complex PDP process doesn’t facilitate an increase of participation. Whatever we do MUST NOT add difficulties or complexities to those that already participate, or we may lose them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US"><br>PDP is not an IGF, but an open, transparent decision making forum with a clear process.<br><br></span>The AFRINIC PDP uses a Working Group as it is expected to study, discuss, design and implement through policies, solutions for a proper management of the INRs in the service region.<br>And such working group requires appropriate moderation.<br><br>Moderation of a working group mailing list must be understood as defined in BCP25, section 6.1<br>***<br> Moderate the WG email list<br><br>The Chair should attempt to ensure that the discussions on the list are relevant and that they converge to consensus agreements. The Chair should make sure that discussions on the list are summarized and that the outcome is well documented (to avoid repetition). ...........<br>***<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">[...]<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">I’m sorry but I disagree with the term “moderation” used in BCP25 for the PDP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">When you say “moderation” *<b>unless</b>* you explicitly CITE BCP25, section 6.1, 99% of the community will understand a different thing. I believe also that you aren’t reading correctly BCP25 for two reasons:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1"><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">The IETF process is only “on-list”.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">The IETF usage of moderation is subjected to other timing, possible virtual meetings, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">I agree that the chairs should make sure that the discussions are on topic and polite, and I think that’s not what the people usually understands as moderation. Moderate a list is to allow each email to be sent or not to the list, in the context that it was said by Komi “</span><span lang="EN-US">Many got lost and confused easily in the unmoderated flow of mails</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US"><br>Please, realize that if I send an email to a given policy authors in November, it should not be needed that I resend the email 6 months after to get responses. </span>If you volunteer to author a proposal, you commit to advance it according to the community discussion and respond timely to emails. This is not necessarily true for community participants, they can decide NOT to respond to authors emails.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">[...] <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><br>Of course, but both things are compatible. I usually don't expect that a 1st version of a policy proposal is right, but if you don't keep improving it along new version, it will not happen.<br><br> > <br> > Please, lead this process to conclusion.<br> > <br> > Thank you.<br> > <br> > On behalf of PDP-BIS Authors<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Arnaud <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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