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    <p>Thanks for the contributions, guys. Please can we try to leave
      out the past failings and stick to the policy discussion proper?
      Whenever we go back to past issues of failing to respond to email
      and stuff, we take away from the current discussion; discussion is
      happening and we thank the contributors for that. Let's stay
      focused, please.</p>
    <p>Dewole.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/31/2019 9:26 AM, JORDI PALET
      MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:9260F1B8-416F-432A-9737-624C17947955@consulintel.es">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="ES-TRAD">Hi Komi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="ES-TRAD"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="ES-TRAD"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 31/5/19
              10:08, "Komi Elitcha" <<a
                href="mailto:kmw.elitcha@gmail.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true">kmw.elitcha@gmail.com</a>>
              escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hello Jordi,<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">You  still
            don't see the contradiction?  Please review what you wrote.<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
              lang="EN-US">I did, and again, I don’t see the issue. I
              will love if someone can clarify what I’m missing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
              lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">A non native
            english speaker should go for an easy English and be less
            pedantic.<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
              lang="EN-US">When you aren’t native, you tend to write
              following the writing style for your own language. This is
              not easy to avoid.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
              lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
              lang="EN-US">There are many other non english speakers
              like you, struggling over there  to understand and
              contribute. </span>This  is another strong motivation for
            a good moderation ( organise the discussions, make sure,
            people use easy english, provide  regular summary of
            discussions...) so that everyone has the same understanding
            and do not fall under individual  interpretation of the
            language....)<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
              lang="EN-US">This is asking too much from the chairs. They
              can’t interpret each message and clarify to the rest of
              the community in their own “writing styles”. Is simply
              impossible. Even more this is not done in any other
              region, neither in the IETF. Maximum chairs do in *<b>one</b>*
              specific WG in IETF (v6ops), is, when there are several
              documents under discussion, they send a *<b>single</b>*
              message to the list asking the people to read and comment
              about one document every week. I can tell you that even
              that is not working, people read the documents if they
              wish and when they can. No sense to change in the PDP
              chairs functions for that, in my opinion is an impossible
              micro-management.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
              lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">PDP key
            principles:  bottom-up,  inclusiveness, openness and
            transparency  is well known and no moderation shall  go
            against them. <o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Moderation's
            definition of PDP-BIS can be found in the PDP document
            through chairs actions at each stage of proposal  lifecycle,
            and in the  working group operation guidelines which
            conforms to BCP25 definition.<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On your last
            point, coauthors  of PDP-BIS  have answered  all your
             mails, including the November's one you referred to,  even
             those not all mails require response.<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
              lang="EN-US">This is not true, even before Dakar, there is
              at least one message that was not responded, and what one
              of the co-authors told me in the Dakar meeting was “I’m
              not reading the mailing list”. This is something I can’t
              expect from proposal authors.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
              lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">HTH<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Komi<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
            Le 25 mai 2019 à 19:24, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a
              href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es"
              moz-do-not-send="true">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>>
            a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                lang="ES-TRAD">Hi Arnaud,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                lang="ES-TRAD"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">El
                  25/5/19 14:57, "Arnaud AMELINA" <<a
                    href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>>
                  escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Hi
                      Jordi<o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Le mer.
                        22 mai 2019 à 13:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a
                          href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>>
                        a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Hi
                        Komi, all,<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                            Many got lost and confused easily in the
                        unmoderated  flow of mails.<br>
                        <br>
                        Big disagreement here. A PDP, by definition is
                        an open and NOT MODERATED PROCESS AT ALL. It
                        must be dynamic, and if some people don't
                        participate, is not good, but that should not
                        preclude the moderation of those that actually
                        participate.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Can
                        we be more serious in these discussions about 
                        the PDP with less contradictions and
                        inconsistencies?<br>
                        What argument are you really  making  with the
                        statement above?<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">I don’t
                          see the contradiction here, unless I said
                          something broken, not being native English.
                          What I’m saying is that the PDP and the
                          corresponding list MUST NOT be moderated at
                          all. I will love everyone participating, and
                          that must be the goal. A more complex PDP
                          process doesn’t facilitate an increase of
                          participation. Whatever we do MUST NOT add
                          difficulties or complexities to those that
                          already participate, or we may lose them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                          lang="EN-US"><br>
                          PDP is  not an IGF,  but an open, transparent
                          decision making  forum with a clear process.<br>
                          <br>
                        </span>The AFRINIC  PDP  uses a Working Group as
                        it is expected to study, discuss,   design and
                        implement through policies, solutions for a
                        proper management of the INRs in the service
                        region.<br>
                        And such working group  requires appropriate 
                        moderation.<br>
                        <br>
                        Moderation of  a working group  mailing list
                        must be understood  as defined in BCP25, section
                        6.1<br>
                        ***<br>
                         Moderate the WG email list<br>
                        <br>
                        The Chair should attempt to ensure that the
                        discussions on the list are relevant and that
                        they converge to consensus agreements. The Chair
                        should make sure that discussions on the list
                        are summarized and that the outcome is well
                        documented (to avoid repetition). ...........<br>
                        ***<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">[...]<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">I’m
                          sorry but I disagree with the term
                          “moderation” used in BCP25 for the PDP.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">When you
                          say “moderation” *<b>unless</b>* you
                          explicitly CITE BCP25, section 6.1, 99% of the
                          community will understand a different thing. I
                          believe also that you aren’t reading correctly
                          BCP25 for two reasons:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                        style="margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
                        level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                          style="mso-list:Ignore">1)<span
                            style="font:7.0pt "Times New
                            Roman"">      </span></span><!--[endif]--><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">The IETF
                          process is only “on-list”.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoListParagraph"
                        style="margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
                        level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                          style="mso-list:Ignore">2)<span
                            style="font:7.0pt "Times New
                            Roman"">      </span></span><!--[endif]--><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">The IETF
                          usage of moderation is subjected to other
                          timing, possible virtual meetings, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">I agree
                          that the chairs should make sure that the
                          discussions are on topic and polite, and I
                          think that’s not what the people usually
                          understands as moderation. Moderate a list is
                          to allow each email to be sent or not to the
                          list, in the context that it was said by Komi
                          “</span><span lang="EN-US">Many got lost and
                          confused easily in the unmoderated flow of
                          mails</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                          lang="EN-US">”.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                          lang="EN-US"><br>
                          Please, realize that if I send an email to a
                          given policy authors in November, it should
                          not be needed that I resend the email 6 months
                          after to get responses. </span>If you
                        volunteer to author a proposal, you commit to
                        advance it according to the community discussion
                        and respond timely to emails. This is not
                        necessarily true for community participants,
                        they can decide NOT to respond to authors
                        emails.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">[...]
                        <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
                        Of course, but both things are compatible. I
                        usually don't expect that a 1st version of a
                        policy proposal is right, but if you don't keep
                        improving it along new version, it will not
                        happen.<br>
                        <br>
                            >      <br>
                            >      Please, lead this process to
                        conclusion.<br>
                            >      <br>
                            >      Thank you.<br>
                            >      <br>
                            >      On behalf of PDP-BIS Authors<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Arnaud 
                        <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
              **********************************************<br>
              IPv4 is over<br>
              Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
              <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
              The IPv6 Company<br>
              <br>
              This electronic message contains information which may be
              privileged or confidential. The information is intended to
              be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above
              and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying,
              distribution or use of the contents of this information,
              even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
              prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If
              you are not the intended recipient be aware that any
              disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
              of this information, even if partially, including attached
              files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a
              criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender
              to inform about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      **********************************************<br>
      IPv4 is over<br>
      Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.theipv6company.com">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
      The IPv6 Company<br>
      <br>
      This electronic message contains information which may be
      privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for
      the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further
      non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use
      of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
      attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a
      criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware
      that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
      of this information, even if partially, including attached files,
      is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so
      you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
      communication and delete it.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
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