<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Times New Roman \(Cuerpo en alfa";
panose-1:2 2 6 3 5 4 5 2 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Helvetica Neue";
panose-1:2 0 5 3 0 0 0 2 0 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML con formato previo Car";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.apple-converted-space
{mso-style-name:apple-converted-space;}
span.gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space
{mso-style-name:gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space;}
span.HTMLconformatoprevioCar
{mso-style-name:"HTML con formato previo Car";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML con formato previo";
font-family:"Consolas",serif;}
span.EstiloCorreo22
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 3.0cm 70.85pt 3.0cm;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Gregoire,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I don’t think what I’ve said is against the Consensus definition of my previous proposal.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Furthermore, I agree that complex proposals require more time, however, there must be a clear definition of the problem statement, which in my opinion, this proposal is lacking for.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><br>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 19/5/19 13:40, "Gregoire EHOUMI" <<a href="mailto:gregoire.ehoumi@yahoo.fr">gregoire.ehoumi@yahoo.fr</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>Hello Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>Each proposal follows its own lifecycle.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>By default, proposals attempting to solve real and delicate problems never have easy life.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>They require long and tedious discussions, analysis and evaluations. The soft landing policy was a good example. It took almost 3 years and 14 versions.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><a href="https://www.afrinic.net/library/policies/697-ipv4-soft-landing-policy">https://www.afrinic.net/library/policies/697-ipv4-soft-landing-policy</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>I am sure you’ve seen this in other regions and at IETF.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>When everybody concurs to positive discussions, the process produces good outcomes which are not necessary about passing proposals<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>If I may quote your definition of consensus in the withdrawn proposal of update to the PDP: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/2018-gen-002-d1#proposal">https://afrinic.net/policy/2018-gen-002-d1#proposal</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>#######<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>3.1.1 Definition of “Consensus”<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>Achieving “consensus” does not mean that proposals are voted for and against, nor that the number of “yes's”, “no's” and “abstentions” – or even participants – are counted, but that the proposal has been discussed not only by its author(s) but also by other members of the community, regardless of their number, and that, after a period of discussion, all critical technical objections have been resolved.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;font-stretch: normal;min-height: 14px'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>In general, this might coincide with a majority of members of the community in favor of the proposal, and with those who are against the proposal basing their objections on technical reasons as opposed to “subjective” reasons. In other words, low participation or participants who disagree for reasons that are not openly explained should not be considered a lack of consensus.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;font-stretch: normal;min-height: 14px'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>Objections should not be measured by their number, but instead by their nature and quality within the context of a given proposal. For example, a member of the community whose opinion is against a proposal might receive many “emails” (virtual or real) in their support, yet the chairs might consider that the opinion has already been addressed and technically refuted during the debate; in this case, the chairs would ignore those expressions of support against the proposal.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;font-stretch: normal;min-height: 14px'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>For information purposes, the definition of “consensus” used by the RIRs and the IETF is actually that of “rough consensus”, which allows better clarifying the goal in this context, given that “consensus” (Latin for agreement) might be interpreted as “agreed by all”’ (unanimity). More specifically, RFC7282, explains that “Rough consensus is achieved when all issues are addressed, but not necessarily accommodated<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>######<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>PDP should lead discussions to clear and strong unresolved “technical” objections which motivate instigators and working group to withdraw a proposal only, for the sake of getting more analysis, consultations, or design a better solution to the problem being solved.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>Withdrawing proposal to seek collusion with conflicted parties or to match opponents aspirations not publicly expressed is not good for the community.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>We wait to engage on your magic solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue"'>Hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>--Gregoire<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Le 13 mai 2019 à 13:09, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Daniel,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I think if proposal authors (in general, not just this proposal) are really looking for the good of the community, when there is such continued opposition (taking this proposal as an example) after 3 years and they aren’t able to clear it despite so many new versions, something need to be understood in between-lines:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Either the community really don’t like it and this perception will not change (at least at this time), or they are not capturing what should be changed or updated to advance it.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>So yes please, have some generosity with the community and have a rest on this. Possibly the best way is withdrawing it, but alternatively a year without updating it will be sufficient.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>After some time, authors can come back. A new version with face-to-face meeting discussions may be more helpful than the actual endless thread by email.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I’ve done this myself a month ago with one of my proposals in RIPE. I still believe I was right (so it was a really difficult decision), and it was just a matter of wording in the actual policy text, which my proposal was trying to solve, but the people were not happy *<b>at this time</b>* to continue the discussion, and trying to force it will not help. I’m convinced when time passes, I may decide to come back later, and may be after a rest, it may go thru.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>It is a personal authors decision, and I’m sure being smarter will help more than trying to push harder.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>In the next meeting I’m going to explain something *<b>very relevant for AFRINIC community</b>* that may help authors of this proposal to provide an *<b>alternative version</b>* with may better match the situation. Please, stay tuned.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'><br>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 13/5/19 18:50, "Daniel Yakmut" <<a href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com"><span style='color:purple'>yakmutd@googlemail.com</span></a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Dear Jordi,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I feel that an approach as you described, could be prescribed for the "Internet Number Resources review by AFRINIC" proposal. The authors could give it a rest for now and allow time to either present an opportunity for the community to see the importance of the proposal or someone someday takes up the proposal polishes it, present it and it gets through. Whichever of the paths the authors take, at the end of the day it will be a win-win situation.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Simply,<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Daniel<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Mark,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>While I don’t agree with this policy proposal, I think it is really dangerous to stick in the PDP a way to avoid a policy to be submitted “again” during so much time.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>In addition to that, either same or different authors, may re-think a given policy proposal, and sometimes, something that didn’t reached consensus, despite different versions, can be accommodated, or just a short period of time (example, 6 months, between two consecutive meetings), either because market, technical, or “happenings”, may change the view of the community.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Let me give you one example.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>LACNIC has been discussing inter-RIR transfers for several years. THREE different policy proposals have failed, even with different authors, small differences among those proposals, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I was never part of the co-authors of those 3 proposals.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>About six months ago, noticing that NOT having this policy in the region is damaging the region, I decided to propose it, asked for other co-authors to participate in the list and in fact I proposed it also in AFRINIC.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Last Tuesday this policy proposal was presented for a first time in the LACNIC meeting, and it reached consensus, after a very successful discussion in the list, which allowed to update the text in several versions.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'>I think this is the perfect example of why I will not avoid a proposal to be submmited even if the discussions don’t draw a succesful discussion. I may be as dangerous for the region as not getting progress in something that may become an emergency.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'>However, the chairs can decide to give a very short discussion time in the meeting (for example just 10 minutes), to a policy proposal that despite not reaching consensus, the authors are not bein able to evolve with the inputs from the community. This is possible with the actual PDP, nothing to be changed for that.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'><br>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 13/5/19 16:52, "Mark Elkins" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za"><span style='color:purple'>mje@posix.co.za</span></a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>I think there should be a policy that states that any Policy that has not gone to last call (successfully unchallenged) and is older than two years must be withdrawn after the next meeting from the Policy Development Process and can only be brought back after two years.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>This particular policy would be a great candidate!</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On 2019/05/12 23:42, Owen DeLong wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On May 12, 2019, at 12:30 , Benjamin Ledoh <<a href="mailto:benjamin.ledoh@gmail.com"><span style='color:purple'>benjamin.ledoh@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Dear Community,<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Marcus asked simple questions to Melvin. I was expecting Melvin to respond but as usual, Owen jumped with his blablabla. We all know that Owen has no company in the Africa Region; he has no interest in this policy and every time he is defend or support policy that could destroy Afrinic. It is not a secret that he hates Afrinic and now is on mission (for a pay master -- I stand to be corrected). The less I say, the better for this community.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>This is very very interesting…<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>It’s true that I’m no longer associated with a company that has any operations in the AfriNIC region.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I agree with you that the less you say, the better for this community.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>That’s pretty much where the truth of your statements ends.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I have tremendous interest in this policy for the good of the region and the good of the internet, both of which stand to be substantially harmed by the policy for the multiple reasons I have previously outlined.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I have never defended or supported policy which I believed could destroy AfriNIC. Indeed, I am opposing this policy because I believe it would be harmful to AfriNIC.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I’m actually quite fond of AfriNIC and many of the people who work there. I count much of the AfriNIC staff and many members of the community as friends. I have no idea where you have come up with this idea that I hate AfriNIC. I assure you that if I hated AfriNIC, the easiest thing for me to do would be to turn a blind eye to this policy and walk away allowing it to do the damage it will surely do if it is adopted. Indeed, I think if you review my history, you will find I do not spend anywhere near this level of effort to try and improve things that I hate.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I also am not sure what you mean by “on a mission for a pay master”. Nobody is paying me to do this. It is true that I have received partial expense sponsorship to attend some AfriNIC meetings from various sources. It is true that I have done other consulting work for a variety of organizations that are AfriNIC members. It is also true that no organization or employer has ever been able to dictate the opinions I express in any public policy forum. I’m quite certain that if you check with any of my former employers, you’ll be easily able to confirm this fact.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The pathetic aspect in this is the submission of Daniel. Brother Dan, in Yoruba, there is a say: "You don't team up with opponents to vandalize your family's property". To a wise, a word is enough.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Are you accusing me of vandalism, sir? If so, I would like to see you back up that claim with some evidence or facts. Otherwise, it is an inappropriate ad hominem attack which is not permitted by the list AUP. If not, please explain yourself more clearly or make an appropriate apology.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>By the way, I am looking for sponsorship to travel to Kampala to attend AIS. Can you be of help? Can you direct me to any foundation? I hope you will take it cool. (LOL)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I am not sure if the Larus foundation is still taking applications for Kampala or not. You could try there. I believe AfriNIC also has a fellowship program, but I’m not sure when their application period closes, either. I don’t know if there are other foundations out there offering grants.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Owen<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Benjiloh<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 6:03 PM Daniel Yakmut via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><span style='color:purple'>rpd@afrinic.net</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Owen, <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Indeed you gave the point blank solution to what I personally have been advocating.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt'>Daniel<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Sun, May 12, 2019, 6:14 PM Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>owen@delong.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On May 12, 2019, at 08:37 , Marcus K. G. Adomey <<a href="mailto:madomey@hotmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>madomey@hotmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'>Hi Melvin<o:p></o:p></p><div style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:11.75pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'><b><i>I can see you suddenly <span class=gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space> </span>have interests for the review policy proposal. Please review <span class=gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space> </span>RPD <span class=gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space> </span>and PPMs <span class=gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space> </span>archives as it is not <span class=gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space> </span>productive to replay old discussions.</i></b><o:p></o:p></p><div style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:11.75pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'><b><i>Please could you provide answers to the following questions<span class=gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space> </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:11.75pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'>> This policy has a lot of problems.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:11.75pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'><b><i>It is not constructive in a working group to just say policy has a lot of problems without listing the problems you see. Please list all the problems and propose texts to address them?</i></b><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>It is not legitimate to insist that those who feel your proposal is flawed must provide text to address those problems. However, let me propose text which would solve all of the problems with this policy so that it cannot be said that I did not do so…<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Please replace the entire proposal with the what is between the BEGIN and END tags below. That will solve all of the problems:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>—— BEGIN ——<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>—— END ——<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I think you must agree that this text is very succinct and does not create any new policy problems like the current proposal.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>While it may not solve all of the problems you intend with your current problem statement, I believe it does, in fact, solve all of the material defects of this proposal and offers a vastly superior policy alternative. (In other words: current policy is a vastly superior policy alternative to the current proposal).<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'>> The other is the potential of end-users being disconnected due to the review. I think we have to bear in mind that, end-users have no clue about the review.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:11.75pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'><b><i>Please show which part of policy proposal requires disconnecting end users? <span class=gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space> </span>The numbers are requested and allocated to serve end-users and I don't see how review will lead to disconnecting these users.</i></b><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Marcus, are you truly so divorced from reality that you do not understand that if you successfully and effectively revoke the resources of an ISP that by definition, you have disconnected the customers of said ISP that were using those resources?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>If not, then I can only assume that you believe that any such revocation will be without actual effect on the internet. If you truly believe that, then you believe that it is OK to render the AfriNIC registration process meaningless compared to operational practice and you wish to create a separation between the two. I realize that currently the two are joined only through the voluntary cooperation of ISPs, but I think it is irresponsible at best to attempt to end that cooperation.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Owen<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:11.75pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-bottom:8.0pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:11.75pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt;line-height:11.75pt'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:center'><hr size=2 width=1440 style='width:1080.0pt' align=center></div></div></div><div id="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644divRplyFwdMsg"><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><b>From:</b><span class=gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space> </span>Melvin Cheng <<a href="mailto:melvinc0730@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>melvinc0730@gmail.com</span></a>><br><b>Sent:</b><span class=gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space> </span>Saturday, May 11, 2019 9:15 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>rpd@afrinic.net</span></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=gmail-m-5536846077062982558m-7235796690132523644apple-converted-space> </span>[rpd] RPD : Prolicy proposal "Internet Number Resources review by AFRINIC" informations update<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Hi</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>The debate over this policy has been for ages. I really think that if an issue has been discussed over and over again, there must be something fundamentally wrong about it. It’s quite obvious that this proposal draws way more controversy than the others - its own existence in a way seems to be a source of extreme disputes among the community, as we have seen in Tunisia. I was in fact there myself. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>This policy has a lot of problems. Intrinsically, as a policy itself, it is not well defined. A lot of terms remain unclear. For example, as Owen has also pointed out earlier, the term “annual meaningful report” is an ambiguous term. What is a “meaningful” report? To whom? What are the factors? How is “meaningful” defined? 100 people can have 100 definitions of “meaningful”. If the report is deemed as something crucial to this proposal, then the author shall better define and address it. Honestly speaking, although this proposal has been “re-proposed” over and over, I do not see any improvements in it. More precisely, I barely see any changes made in the new proposal when comparing to the previous one. I would expect the authors to make some adjustments when so many issues have not been addressed in previous meetings before they posted them again, even just as gesture of their sincerity. You can’t just post something that’s almost identical by pretending your audience were blind. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>On the other hand, this policy is not realistic at all. Afrinic does not have the financial power to conduct such a big quantity of reviews within its regions. It’s quiet easy to imagine that because of this lack of financial backup, reviews are done unfairly and unjustly. For example, some users are screened while the others are not because Afrinic runs out of money during the process of review. This may, at the worst, can lead to Afrinic’s bankruptcy, which I am sure none of us would wish that to happen. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>The other is the potential of end-users being disconnected due to the review. I think we have to bear in mind that, end-users have no clue about the review. However, according to this proposal, if an ISP is found to have violated the rule (ie, inefficient utilisation of resources), their IPs will be taken back by Afrinic and re-allocate to others. End-user will lost connectivity to the Internet during this process even they have no idea what is going on. This is unfair to them. After all, connectivity to the Internet shall come as the priority over any other things. What this policy will bring is quiet the opposite. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Having said so much, I think my stand is quite clear. This proposal is not well drafted and the authors haven’t well considered its potential problems. It’s impractical when considering Afrinic’s current situation. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Let’s not forget about this. if something has been doubted by people over and over again, there must be something wrong about it. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Cheers </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Melvin </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"><span style='color:purple'>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"><span style='color:purple'>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'><a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za"><span style='color:purple'>mje@posix.co.za</span></a> Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/"><span style='color:purple'>https://ftth.posix.co.za</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"><span style='color:purple'>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"><span style='color:purple'>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"><span style='color:purple'>http://www.theipv6company.com</span></a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"><span style='color:purple'>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"><span style='color:purple'>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br></span><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:purple'>http://www.theipv6company.com</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:purple'>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><br></span><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:purple'>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
IPv4 is over<br>
Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
http://www.theipv6company.com<br>
The IPv6 Company<br>
<br>
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br>
<br>
</body></html>