<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 12, 2019, at 12:30 , Benjamin Ledoh <<a href="mailto:benjamin.ledoh@gmail.com" class="">benjamin.ledoh@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Dear Community,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Marcus asked simple questions to Melvin. I was expecting Melvin to respond but as usual, Owen jumped with his blablabla. We all know that Owen has no company in the Africa Region; he has no interest in this policy and every time he is defend or support policy that could destroy Afrinic. It is not a secret that he hates Afrinic and now is on mission (for a pay master -- I stand to be corrected). The less I say, the better for this community.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>This is very very interesting…</div><div><br class=""></div><div>It’s true that I’m no longer associated with a company that has any operations in the AfriNIC region.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I agree with you that the less you say, the better for this community.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>That’s pretty much where the truth of your statements ends.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I have tremendous interest in this policy for the good of the region and the good of the internet, both of which stand to be substantially harmed by the policy for the multiple reasons I have previously outlined.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I have never defended or supported policy which I believed could destroy AfriNIC. Indeed, I am opposing this policy because I believe it would be harmful to AfriNIC.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I’m actually quite fond of AfriNIC and many of the people who work there. I count much of the AfriNIC staff and many members of the community as friends. I have no idea where you have come up with this idea that I hate AfriNIC. I assure you that if I hated AfriNIC, the easiest thing for me to do would be to turn a blind eye to this policy and walk away allowing it to do the damage it will surely do if it is adopted. Indeed, I think if you review my history, you will find I do not spend anywhere near this level of effort to try and improve things that I hate.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I also am not sure what you mean by “on a mission for a pay master”. Nobody is paying me to do this. It is true that I have received partial expense sponsorship to attend some AfriNIC meetings from various sources. It is true that I have done other consulting work for a variety of organizations that are AfriNIC members. It is also true that no organization or employer has ever been able to dictate the opinions I express in any public policy forum. I’m quite certain that if you check with any of my former employers, you’ll be easily able to confirm this fact.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">The pathetic aspect in this is the submission of Daniel. Brother Dan, in Yoruba, there is a say: "You don't team up with opponents to vandalize your family's property". To a wise, a word is enough.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Are you accusing me of vandalism, sir? If so, I would like to see you back up that claim with some evidence or facts. Otherwise, it is an inappropriate ad hominem attack which is not permitted by the list AUP. If not, please explain yourself more clearly or make an appropriate apology.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">By the way, I am looking for sponsorship to travel to Kampala to attend AIS. Can you be of help? Can you direct me to any foundation? I hope you will take it cool. (LOL)</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>I am not sure if the Larus foundation is still taking applications for Kampala or not. You could try there. I believe AfriNIC also has a fellowship program, but I’m not sure when their application period closes, either. I don’t know if there are other foundations out there offering grants.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Benjiloh</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 6:03 PM Daniel Yakmut via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">Owen, </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Indeed you gave the point blank solution to what I personally have been advocating.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Cheers</div><div dir="auto" class="">Daniel<br class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="">On Sun, May 12, 2019, 6:14 PM Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 12, 2019, at 08:37 , Marcus K. G. Adomey <<a href="mailto:madomey@hotmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">madomey@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt" class=""><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Hi Melvin</p><div style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><b class=""><i class="">I can see you suddenly<span class=""> <span class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>have interests for the review policy proposal. Please review<span class=""> <span class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>RPD<span class=""> <span class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>and PPMs<span class=""> <span class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>archives as it is not<span class=""> <span class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>productive to replay old discussions.</i></b></p><div style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><b class=""><i class="">Please could you provide answers to the following questions<span class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></p><div style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> This policy has a lot of problems.</p><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></p><div style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><i class=""><b class="">It is not constructive in a working group to just say policy has a lot of problems without listing the problems you see. Please list all the problems and propose texts to address them?</b></i></p><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote>It is not legitimate to insist that those who feel your proposal is flawed must provide text to address those problems. However, let me propose text which would solve all of the problems with this policy so that it cannot be said that I did not do so…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please replace the entire proposal with the what is between the BEGIN and END tags below. That will solve all of the problems:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">—— BEGIN ——</div><div class="">—— END ——</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think you must agree that this text is very succinct and does not create any new policy problems like the current proposal.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">While it may not solve all of the problems you intend with your current problem statement, I believe it does, in fact, solve all of the material defects of this proposal and offers a vastly superior policy alternative. (In other words: current policy is a vastly superior policy alternative to the current proposal).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt" class=""><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">> The other is the potential of end-users being disconnected due to the review. I think we have to bear in mind that, end-users have no clue about the review.</span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></p><div style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><b class=""><i class="">Please show which part of policy proposal requires disconnecting end users?<span class=""> <span class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>The numbers are requested and allocated to serve end-users and I don't see how review will lead to disconnecting these users.</i></b></p></div></blockquote>Marcus, are you truly so divorced from reality that you do not understand that if you successfully and effectively revoke the resources of an ISP that by definition, you have disconnected the customers of said ISP that were using those resources?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If not, then I can only assume that you believe that any such revocation will be without actual effect on the internet. If you truly believe that, then you believe that it is OK to render the AfriNIC registration process meaningless compared to operational practice and you wish to create a separation between the two. I realize that currently the two are joined only through the voluntary cooperation of ISPs, but I think it is irresponsible at best to attempt to end that cooperation.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt" class=""><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></p><div style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><br class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:15.6933px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Thanks</p><br class=""></div><div id="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644appendonsend" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""></div><hr style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;display:inline-block;width:1449.41px" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class=""></span><div id="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-converted-space"> </span>Melvin Cheng <<a href="mailto:melvinc0730@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">melvinc0730@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, May 11, 2019 9:15 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="gmail-m_-5536846077062982558m_-7235796690132523644Apple-converted-space"> </span>[rpd] RPD : Prolicy proposal "Internet Number Resources review by AFRINIC" informations update</font><div class=""> </div></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Hi</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">The debate over this policy has been for ages. I really think that if an issue has been discussed over and over again, there must be something fundamentally wrong about it. It’s quite obvious that this proposal draws way more controversy than the others - its own existence in a way seems to be a source of extreme disputes among the community, as we have seen in Tunisia. I was in fact there myself. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">This policy has a lot of problems. Intrinsically, as a policy itself, it is not well defined. A lot of terms remain unclear. For example, as Owen has also pointed out earlier, the term “annual meaningful report” is an ambiguous term. What is a “meaningful” report? To whom? What are the factors? How is “meaningful” defined? 100 people can have 100 definitions of “meaningful”. If the report is deemed as something crucial to this proposal, then the author shall better define and address it. Honestly speaking, although this proposal has been “re-proposed” over and over, I do not see any improvements in it. More precisely, I barely see any changes made in the new proposal when comparing to the previous one. I would expect the authors to make some adjustments when so many issues have not been addressed in previous meetings before they posted them again, even just as gesture of their sincerity. You can’t just post something that’s almost identical by pretending your audience were blind. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">On the other hand, this policy is not realistic at all. Afrinic does not have the financial power to conduct such a big quantity of reviews within its regions. It’s quiet easy to imagine that because of this lack of financial backup, reviews are done unfairly and unjustly. For example, some users are screened while the others are not because Afrinic runs out of money during the process of review. This may, at the worst, can lead to Afrinic’s bankruptcy, which I am sure none of us would wish that to happen. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">The other is the potential of end-users being disconnected due to the review. I think we have to bear in mind that, end-users have no clue about the review. However, according to this proposal, if an ISP is found to have violated the rule (ie, inefficient utilisation of resources), their IPs will be taken back by Afrinic and re-allocate to others. End-user will lost connectivity to the Internet during this process even they have no idea what is going on. This is unfair to them. After all, connectivity to the Internet shall come as the priority over any other things. What this policy will bring is quiet the opposite. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Having said so much, I think my stand is quite clear. This proposal is not well drafted and the authors haven’t well considered its potential problems. It’s impractical when considering Afrinic’s current situation. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Let’s not forget about this. if something has been doubted by people over and over again, there must be something wrong about it. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Cheers </div><div dir="auto" class="">Melvin </div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""></div></div></div></div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">RPD mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class=""><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class=""><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></span></blockquote></div><br class=""></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">
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