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<p>Mark,</p>
<p>My apologies once again. <br>
</p>
<p>Sunday.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/12/2018 13:39, Mark Elkins wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1a99aa47-8b72-f749-9b4a-c25104b6bf9d@posix.co.za">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>Sunday, you were not there, I was. You are providing incorrect
information.</p>
<p>I quote:</p>
<div dir="auto">The minutes(*) of the PPM of AFRINIC-28 was
published by co-chairs as mandated by the PDP. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The cochair election sections (6.1) read:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">[....]</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">"The Elections Committee asked for a show of hands
for those in favor, and those not in favor of Mark Elkins’
candidature. After a show of hands, there were 22 in favor and
56 not in favor of Mark’s candidature.</div>
<div dir="auto">NomCom Chair called for nominations from the floor
to fill the empty PDWG co-chair seat.</div>
<div dir="auto">There were suggestions that the position be filled
by a temporary co-chair until there’s another nominations
process to find a replacement co-chair.</div>
<div dir="auto">Sami Salih (the outgoing co-chair) offered to
continue as co-chair till there is a process in future to find a
new co-chair.</div>
<div dir="auto">Delegates were asked if there is support for Sami
to continue as co-chair till the next scheduled nominations
period. There was strong support to have Sami continue – and he
was therefore tasked to serve as temporary co-chair until the
next scheduled nominations season."</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">(The last part of the minutes are wrong when
compared with the video recording - as explained elsewhere)<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><b>I was the only person who went through the
complete Election Process for the PDP Co-Chair - beginning to
end.</b> In Dakar (Yes, I was present), I found myself as the
ONLY person who was standing for the seat. However, the
Elections Committee asked for a show of hands from people in the
room and the room voted for me not to stand - as per above. One
of the most interesting aspects of the Dakar meeting was the
number of well dressed local people who attended the meetings
around midday and who had lunch at the hotel, then left. One
lady whom I spoke to was a Hair Dresser - or rather studying to
be one from the local college. She had no clue why she was
voting - but she did get a good (free) lunch. She was not part
of our community and there were many, many like her present at
the time of voting.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Consequently - for the future - I believe the
community should be at least only people in or directly related
to the Internet Industry. This would reduce the hotels food bill
from a meeting expenses point of view - that is - <b>members
money</b>. I'm also in agreement that there should be a
meeting attendance fee - to reduce the potential for these
meetings to be used and abused in this manner. I would though
like to see a small quote of free tickets to member
organisations - e.g. a minimum of one ticket per member
organisation, and more for larger member organisations
(non-transferable - etc)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">In conclusion, the Vote for PDP Co-Chair was
abused by a small number of people present at the meeting. Sami
should never have been "elected" to begin with. He never
intended to stand.<br>
I also consider Sami to be a friend and I have worked with him
on other projects (e.g. DNS African Study). I wish him no ill.
He has perhaps though ended up in the wrong place.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/6/18 11:39 AM, Sunday Folayan
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f79df195-9b6f-bd6d-9898-765e65dda8da@gmail.com">Greetings,
<br>
<br>
This should resolve the issues around the legitimacy of an
hard-working volunteer, for the job no one else wants to do, so
that the community can move on. <br>
<br>
Moving on, is without prejudice to the rights and intention of
other parties to appeal or not appeal if and when the last call
is made by the legitimate callers - the Co-Chairs. <br>
<br>
Apologies for the cross-posting. <br>
<br>
Kind Regards .. <br>
<br>
R.SF. <br>
<br>
On 06/12/2018 09:01, Ernest Byaruhanga wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Colleagues, <br>
<br>
Here is some background information on the matter of Sami’s
term as co-chair of the Policy Development Working Group. <br>
<br>
On the 07 of June 2018, minutes of the AFRINIC28 public policy
meeting were published on the AFRINIC website and shared with
the co-chairs. <br>
<br>
The minutes are published at <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28</a>
<br>
<br>
The last two bullets of minute 6.1 read as follows: <br>
<br>
---------- <br>
• Sami Salih (the outgoing co-chair) offered to continue as
co-chair till there is a process in future to find a new
co-chair. <br>
• Delegates were asked if there is support for Sami to
continue as co-chair till the next scheduled nominations
period. There was strong support to have Sami continue – and
he was therefore tasked to serve as temporary co-chair until
the next scheduled nominations season. <br>
————— <br>
<br>
The above is what guided Sami (and AFRINIC) to believe that
his tenure would run "until the next scheduled nominations
season”, which is next year at AIS/AFRINIC30 (2019). <br>
<br>
Looking at the video at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY</a>,
it’s clear that the recorded minute above did not accurately
reflect what was discussed. <br>
<br>
Apologies for the confusion. <br>
<br>
Regards, <br>
Ernest. <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 6 Dec 2018, at 10:38, Andrew Alston
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com></a>
wrote: <br>
<br>
Arnaud, <br>
My motivation – when I found this situation and duly acted
on it – was simple – to gather the evidence required to
prove that the process had not been followed in the passing
of this policy – the fact that while looking for other
evidence to document all the objections that made this
policy fail in Dakar, I came across this – is immaterial
sometimes when you are documenting evidence to form solid
and legitimate groundwork for an appeal when you know for a
fact that process has not been followed, you come across
things that you hadn’t seen before – that require action. <br>
If by “Is this what we can expect from Liquid” you refer
to me personally insisting on adherence to process and
adherence to the bylaws – then yes – that is what you can
expect, please remember – in the context of the PDP –
companies typically do not take the floor – individuals from
the community do. When and if I am speaking on behalf of my
employer – I have always made this extremely clear. <br>
As for the vague insinuations about cross-checked data –
yes – my data was wrong – it happens and I’ve admitted that
– it happened because I relied on published data that I
downloaded from a source that I believed to be trusted and
didn’t verify it – my mistake and I apologise for that –
however, that is not really relevant to the discussion at
hand and is, in my opinion, you doing exactly what you are
accusing me of doing, conflating issues to try and discredit
something legitimate. I refer to my previous email about
members of this community engaging in “whataboutism” (<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism</a>)
– this is case in point. <br>
Andrew <br>
From: Arnaud AMELINA <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><amelnaud@gmail.com></a>
<br>
Sent: 06 December 2018 09:07 <br>
To: Andrew Alston <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com></a>
<br>
Cc: abel ELITCHA <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:kmw.elitcha@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><kmw.elitcha@gmail.com></a>;
rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><rpd@afrinic.net></a>;
General Discussions of AFRINIC <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><community-discuss@afrinic.net></a>
<br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Sami's status as a co-chair <br>
Andrew, <br>
Why do you always react following your ego and pursuing
personal interest and not community interest? When you
started this palaver on last call and Sami tenure, you tried
on community-discuss to use data you have not cross checked
to discredit the organization performance. What is your
real motive? Is this what we should expect from Liquid
telecom all along ? <br>
Arnaud <br>
Le mer. 5 déc. 2018 20:10, Andrew Alston <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com></a>
a écrit : <br>
Komi, <br>
You cannot rewrite the mandate granted by the community in
the minutes. <br>
Fact – the reality is – the community voted – clearly – on
a 6 month mandate – that is indisputable fact. <br>
Fact – that mandate expired <br>
What the *minutes* say does not change the reality of a
video recorded meeting. <br>
When the issue was raised – is immaterial – the context of
the issue being raised – is immaterial – fact – is fact –
the mandate was granted – the mandate expired. <br>
Andrew <br>
From: Komi Elitcha <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:kmw.elitcha@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><kmw.elitcha@gmail.com></a>
<br>
Date: Wednesday, 5 December 2018 at 21:30 <br>
To: Andrew Alston <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com></a>
<br>
Cc: "AfriNIC RPD MList." <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><rpd@afrinic.net></a>
<br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Sami's status as a co-chair <br>
Hello Andrew, <br>
The minutes(*) of the PPM of AFRINIC-28 was published by
co-chairs as mandated by the PDP. <br>
The cochair election sections (6.1) read: <br>
[....] <br>
"The Elections Committee asked for a show of hands for
those in favor, and those not in favor of Mark Elkins’
candidature. After a show of hands, there were 22 in favor
and 56 not in favor of Mark’s candidature. <br>
NomCom Chair called for nominations from the floor to fill
the empty PDWG co-chair seat. <br>
There were suggestions that the position be filled by a
temporary co-chair until there’s another nominations process
to find a replacement co-chair. <br>
Sami Salih (the outgoing co-chair) offered to continue as
co-chair till there is a process in future to find a new
co-chair. <br>
Delegates were asked if there is support for Sami to
continue as co-chair till the next scheduled nominations
period. There was strong support to have Sami continue – and
he was therefore tasked to serve as temporary co-chair until
the next scheduled nominations season." <br>
Practices at AFRINIC is that Elections are held mostly
during the community meeting coupled with AGMM. So it is not
surprising to see that the PDWG admin page(**) lists Sami as
cochair with term June2016 - June2019. <br>
This probably explains why an election process was not
triggered for the AFRINIC-29. <br>
Nobody raised an alarm when the 77 days before election
day passed (15 September 2018) and there was no nomination
process.Furthermore, at the beginning of the PPM in
Hammamet, there was no objection to Sami chairing the
meeting. <br>
Making all these noises, and challenging Sami right to
operate at the meeting and moving on, just because Co-chairs
made a decision one does not like is not responsible. <br>
Decency would have required the separation of issues
appropriately handling them through other mechanisms, which
would normally be more consensual with interest in conflict
resolution an in an appealing manner . <br>
Hope this helps <br>
-Komi <br>
(*) <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28</a>
<br>
(**)<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group#admin"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group#admin</a>
<br>
Le mar. 4 déc. 2018 à 4:52 PM, Andrew Alston <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com></a>
a écrit : <br>
Hi All, <br>
I want to clarify something – to be very sure. <br>
If I am correct – there was no election of a PDP co-chair
in Tunisia. Can someone please confirm that? Because if
there was no election – we only have ONE chair at the moment
– and Sami’s status as a co-chair has lapsed and he cannot
adjudicate on consensus. <br>
I say this – because in Dakar – and for those of you that
were not there, please see <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY</a>
at about 13 minutes in, Sami’s position was granted as
interim only – and only for the following 6 months until the
next PDP. <br>
So – unless there was an election called – and video
evidence of this – Sami is no longer eligible to act in the
position of co-chair – since his mandate was not granted by
this community on the floor of a meeting, and as per the
legal counsel at the Dakar meeting – any position into which
Sami entered – was only valid until the November meeting,
and the co-chair goes on, on record on the microphone to
further state that Sami was only appointed “Until the next
PDP meeting” <br>
Sami – on that note, thank you for your service as the
interim co-chair over the preceeding 6 months. <br>
Andrew <br>
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</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" moz-do-not-send="true">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" moz-do-not-send="true">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>
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