<div dir="auto"><div>Hello Mark,</div><div dir="auto">See responses in-line <br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018, 8:52 AM Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>From what Andrew is saying - the policy should never have gone to
last call if there have been no changes. That's how the PDP
process is meant to work. In reality - if the whole community
accepted seeing a policy for the second time - then fair enough -
but that is NOT the case here. I strongly oppose this policy. I
have also watched the antics of the people pushing this policy and
I think it was extremely rude and totally out of place for one of
their party to call someone else in the room a "visitor" -
suggesting that that other person had no rights to be present. The
person being subjected to this treatment provided much needed
input (and policies) to the Policy Development Process -
especially regarding IPv6 - which is our future.<br>
We should have no place for Name Calling. <br></p></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">Not speaking for the person here, but I remembered watching it remotely where the said person clarified his statement. </font></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p>
</p>
<p>I never heard an apology either.</p></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">I think you should watch again, the person apologised if his statement has been misinterpreted and even heard applause from the room afterwards. </font></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Anyway - I believe that the PDP Co-Chairs have made a mistake and
this Policy has not reached a positive Consensus (actually quite
the opposite to Positive). It should not be at last call. <br>
</p>
<p>The Policy - if used - is also extremely dangerous to the
existence and financial well being of the Company (AFRINIC).<br>
It really should be withdrawn.<br></p></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">I thought Staff Assessment was conducted. I believe this must have been sorted out and necessary clarification provided.</font></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p>
</p>
<div class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-cite-prefix">On 12/1/18 9:15 AM, Andrew Alston
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="m_-5349817618761069114WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sorry – I need to correct something in my
email below –<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I said there were no _<i>substantive</i>_
changes since the last rejection of this policy – this is
inaccurate – there were *<b>NO</b>* - changes – substantive or
otherwise – zero – zip – none – as per the website which
publishes draft 6<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Andrew Alston
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 09:27<br>
<b>To: </b><a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">"aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"</a>
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><aleruchichuku@yahoo.com></a>, Daniel Yakmut
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><yakmutd@googlemail.com></a>, Daniel Yakmut via RPD
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on
the review policy<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Aleruchi,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">While I agree with everything you have said
– let us also be pragmatic. This policy is pushed by the same
crowd that walked to the microphone and agreed at the request
of the community to drop another policy, and then reneged on
it. This policy has been rejected, as has the soft landing
policy, over and over again – yet the authors do not give a
damn about the will of the community or the good of the
community. Go and watch the videos of the Mauritian policy
meeting – you will notice the same people involved in what
happened there are involved in this policy as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The authors have clearly demonstrated that
they care not a whit about what this community wants or
believes is good for it, they have demonstrated bad faith, and
shown that the only thing they care about is shoving something
through no matter the consequence – and the co-chairs have
already shown that they either do not understand the concept
of consensus – or simply do not care. Fact is – there is
precedent on co-chairs being overturned on appeal in another
RIR – and when it happened – the person who was overturned –
ceased to be a co-chair. These co-chairs however are
insistent on a path that ignores the consensus process, and
seem hell bent on forcing a situation where they are
overturned – yet again – or failing that forcing AfriNIC into
an untenable and potentially costly process beyond the appeal
process.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Reality is – there were _<i>no</i>_
substantive changes to this policy from the last time it was
rejected – and the objections to the policy that were stated
back then have never been withdrawn, and by lack of changes in
the text can be clearly demonstrated to not have been
addressed – this flies in the very face of the definition of
consensus – the co-chairs however simply do not care.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Welcome to what our PDP process has become
– the bullying of the minority supported by co-chairs who do
not understand consensus – to push through agendas that have
zero to do with the good of the community and more to do with
standing your ground to prove that you can.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And btw – before I’m attacked – yes – I
have proposed some controversial policies over the years –
fact is – all of them were withdrawn when the community wanted
that.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">aleruchi chuku via
RPD <a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b><a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">"aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"</a>
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><aleruchichuku@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 07:02<br>
<b>To: </b>Daniel Yakmut <a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><yakmutd@googlemail.com></a>,
Daniel Yakmut via RPD <a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><rpd@afrinic.net></a>, rpd List
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on
the review policy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It's very sad that this policy still
lingers like a nightmare after it has been rejected over and
over again. It has consistently bred anger and mistrust.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div id="m_-5349817618761069114yMail_cursorElementTracker_1543636533105">
<p class="MsoNormal">Please for the sake of unity, I will
advice the chairs to do what is right by the people. DROP
THIS POLICY.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-5349817618761069114yMail_cursorElementTracker_1543636789715">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-5349817618761069114yMail_cursorElementTracker_1543636791763">
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_-5349817618761069114yMail_cursorElementTracker_1543636794622">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Aleruchi<u></u><u></u></p>
<div id="m_-5349817618761069114ymail_android_signature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 4:15 am, Daniel
Yakmut via RPD<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><rpd@afrinic.net></a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #6d00f6 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 15.0pt;margin-top:7.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_-5349817618761069114mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-signature" cols="72">--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
<a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a class="m_-5349817618761069114moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>
</pre>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>