<div dir="auto"><div>Andrew, </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Response in-line please. </div><div dir="auto"><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018, 10:05 AM Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Timothy,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I look forward to the public clarification – but I can assure you that a portion of documentation was corrupted and is gone – that being – all attachments to all applications prior to a certain date. That means – any diagrams included
in motivations – any supplementary documentation – any motivations written outside of the body of email – before a certain date – is all gone.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">That cannot be rectified – the data is gone – for good – and I might add this did NOT happen under the watch of the current CEO – he was not employed by AfriNIC if my timeline is correct – I am not sure if the same can be said for the current
hostmaster. Quite frankly though – I have no interest in attributing blame – I am however curious as to how we can have an audit policy that is fair and equitable when one of the criterion for audit has to be the reasons originally clearly stated for the
need for IP (the needs based justification) – and I can clearly demonstrate in multiple cases that such motivation was found in attachments and documents which no longer exist (based on the content of the body of emails I have that refer to said attachments)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As such – the policy cannot go ahead in its current form – and this should have been picked up and stated in the staff assessment – but – the staff have been entirely silent on their loss of data</p></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">I disagree with this. Just as you clarified that the previous issue did not likely happened under the current CEO, we may likely say the same for the staff too. A staff can not be blamed for a flawed procedure that is meant to have been corrected by the Organisation as a whole. Let's '<b>assume</b>' the current staff has no idea about what you mentioned and the previous staff did not provide any documentation of such in the handing over notes, then trust me you can't blame the new staff in its entirety. </font></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3"><br></font></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">In the likely event that your claim is correct, moving forward, I will like to ask if it will be impossible for the organisation under review to provide all necessary documents (including the lost, the archived, the forsaken body of emails) to justify the manner of usage of their allocated resources? The policy proposal gave a timeline for the entity under review to provide documentation (both lost and retrievable, I suppose) to justify and assist staff investigation. This should be sufficient IMHO! </font></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3"><br></font></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3"><i><b>I believe an error can be corrected at the point of discovery</b></i>. This is applicable to any organisation. That we should wait till we resolve issues of lost and long gone documentations before proceeding with the review of allocated resources (which the RSA already stated clearly) is impracticable!</font></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3"><br></font></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">A positive side to this especially for an organisation with lost, damaged and irretrievable documentation, will allow AFRINIC to update its records for such and we can all move forward. </font></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3"><br></font></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">Best! </font></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_-8930613805974921132WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Timothy Ola Akinfenwa <<a href="mailto:akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 11:51<br>
<b>To: </b>Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mje@posix.co.za</a>>, rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Andrew, <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018, 9:40 AM Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Timothy,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">AfriNIC HAS *<b>NEVER*
</b>publicly acknowledged the loss of a large portion of attachments associated with application documents. How is it that when we talk about audit and staff assessment – that it does not come to light to the community that Afrinic does not even have a large
amount of documentation associated with the applications that would demonstrate how they were applied for?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">This will be serious if true. I think the AFRINIC CEO should provide clarification to this. I will not like to be misled. Just in case this claim is true, has it been remedied? When too? </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This documentation I still maintain is critical for a fair audit that covers all aspects – and if you do not have said documentation for ALL members – to act on it against SOME
members would be prejudicial.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">I agree with you on this, only if the above is confirmed to be correct. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So to refer to staff assessment – how was THIS not brought up in staff assessment – and does this not put paid to the lie that the staff assessment in and of itself is flawed?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">This has to be clarified too, just only if and only if your previous assertion was true! </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Timothy Ola Akinfenwa <<a href="mailto:akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 11:23<br>
<b>To: </b>Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Mark,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">See responses in-line <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018, 8:52 AM Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mje@posix.co.za</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>From what Andrew is saying - the policy should never have gone to last call if there have been no changes. That's how the PDP process is meant to work. In reality - if the whole community accepted seeing a policy for the second time - then fair enough -
but that is NOT the case here. I strongly oppose this policy. I have also watched the antics of the people pushing this policy and I think it was extremely rude and totally out of place for one of their party to call someone else in the room a "visitor" -
suggesting that that other person had no rights to be present. The person being subjected to this treatment provided much needed input (and policies) to the Policy Development Process - especially regarding IPv6 - which is our future.<br>
We should have no place for Name Calling. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">Not speaking for the person here, but I remembered watching it remotely where the said person clarified his statement. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>I never heard an apology either.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">I think you should watch again, the person apologised if his statement has been misinterpreted and even heard applause from the room afterwards. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>Anyway - I believe that the PDP Co-Chairs have made a mistake and this Policy has not reached a positive Consensus (actually quite the opposite to Positive). It should not be at last call.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>The Policy - if used - is also extremely dangerous to the existence and financial well being of the Company (AFRINIC).<br>
It really should be withdrawn.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">I thought Staff Assessment was conducted. I believe this must have been sorted out and necessary clarification provided.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/1/18 9:15 AM, Andrew Alston wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sorry – I need to correct something in my email below –<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I said there were no _<i>substantive</i>_ changes since the last rejection of this policy – this is inaccurate – there were *<b>NO</b>* - changes – substantive or otherwise – zero
– zip – none – as per the website which publishes draft 6<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Andrew Alston <a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 09:27<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">"aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"</a>
<a href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><aleruchichuku@yahoo.com></a>, Daniel Yakmut
<a href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><yakmutd@googlemail.com></a>, Daniel Yakmut via RPD
<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Aleruchi,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">While I agree with everything you have said – let us also be pragmatic. This policy is pushed by the same crowd that walked to the microphone and agreed at the request of the community
to drop another policy, and then reneged on it. This policy has been rejected, as has the soft landing policy, over and over again – yet the authors do not give a damn about the will of the community or the good of the community. Go and watch the videos
of the Mauritian policy meeting – you will notice the same people involved in what happened there are involved in this policy as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The authors have clearly demonstrated that they care not a whit about what this community wants or believes is good for it, they have demonstrated bad faith, and shown that the
only thing they care about is shoving something through no matter the consequence – and the co-chairs have already shown that they either do not understand the concept of consensus – or simply do not care. Fact is – there is precedent on co-chairs being overturned
on appeal in another RIR – and when it happened – the person who was overturned – ceased to be a co-chair. These co-chairs however are insistent on a path that ignores the consensus process, and seem hell bent on forcing a situation where they are overturned
– yet again – or failing that forcing AfriNIC into an untenable and potentially costly process beyond the appeal process.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Reality is – there were _<i>no</i>_ substantive changes to this policy from the last time it was rejected – and the objections to the policy that were stated back then have never
been withdrawn, and by lack of changes in the text can be clearly demonstrated to not have been addressed – this flies in the very face of the definition of consensus – the co-chairs however simply do not care.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Welcome to what our PDP process has become – the bullying of the minority supported by co-chairs who do not understand consensus – to push through agendas that have zero to do with
the good of the community and more to do with standing your ground to prove that you can.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And btw – before I’m attacked – yes – I have proposed some controversial policies over the years – fact is – all of them were withdrawn when the community wanted that.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">aleruchi chuku via RPD <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b><a href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">"aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"</a>
<a href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><aleruchichuku@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 07:02<br>
<b>To: </b>Daniel Yakmut <a href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<yakmutd@googlemail.com></a>, Daniel Yakmut via RPD <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<rpd@afrinic.net></a>, rpd List <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It's very sad that this policy still lingers like a nightmare after it has been rejected over and over again. It has consistently bred anger and mistrust.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div id="m_-8930613805974921132m_-6821265901603423866m_-5349817618761069114yMail_cursorElementTracker_1543636533105">
<p class="MsoNormal">Please for the sake of unity, I will advice the chairs to do what is right by the people. DROP THIS POLICY.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div id="m_-8930613805974921132m_-6821265901603423866m_-5349817618761069114yMail_cursorElementTracker_1543636791763">
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Aleruchi<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 4:15 am, Daniel Yakmut via RPD<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><rpd@afrinic.net></a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>RPD mailing list<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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