<div dir="auto"><div>Andrew, <br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018, 11:10 AM Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Comments in line –<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><u><span style="color:#2196f3">In the likely event that your claim is correct, moving forward, I will like to ask if it will be impossible for the organisation under review to provide all necessary documents (including the lost, the
archived, the forsaken body of emails) to justify the manner of usage of their allocated resources? The policy proposal gave a timeline for the entity under review to provide documentation (both lost and retrievable, I suppose) to justify and assist staff
investigation. This should be sufficient IMHO! </span></u></i></b><b><i><u><u></u><u></u></u></i></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><u><span style="color:#2196f3">I believe an error can be corrected at the point of discovery</span></u></i></b><b><i><u><span style="color:#2196f3">. This is applicable to any organisation. That we should wait till we resolve issues
of lost and long gone documentations before proceeding with the review of allocated resources (which the RSA already stated clearly) is impracticable!</span></u></i></b><b><i><u><u></u><u></u></u></i></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I strongly disagree with this – because it opens the door to an organization being able at will to change the justification for space that is not afforded to other organizations.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As an example – if an entity applied for space for purpose X and a review is done, and documentation is available, and they are found to NOT be using the space for purpose X, there is nothing in the policy that allows for a revised usage
state – that simply is not there under the current policy as proposed.</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">Is there anything like a <b>revised usage state</b> in the RSA that allows an entity to come forward at will or upon invitation to revise the purpose for which a previously allocated resource(s) was based? I'll like be clear on this.</font></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_8714654472858431140WordSection1"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">However, if an entity applied for space for purpose Y and the documentation is NOT there, they are then free to modify their motivation and justification as they wish and claim it as the
original justification – this is drastically prejudicial to those who’s documentation AfriNIC still has and is not uniform of equitable.</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">To be honest, this is not impossible. However, as I stated earlier, the CEO or anyone responsible for this may have to clarify this situation to the community and the extent of damage, just in case this assertion is true. We may be able to proffer a reasonable solution, moving forward.</font></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_8714654472858431140WordSection1"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The way to fix this would be a modification of policy to cater for this situation – which should have happened under staff review had they brought this to the attention of the community. This was not done – and since a policy that is modified
has to go back to the floor for ratification – this policy cannot go through in its current form – because it is prejudicial and I would argue anyone reviewed under this policy would have grounds to challenge the review on the lack of ability to uniformly
apply the policy and the methods of review, thereby invalidating the entire policy.</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><font color="#2196f3">While not being pre-emptive of the appeal process, I think it is the only way forward to challenge the rough consensus already declared by the Co-chairs.</font></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_8714654472858431140WordSection1"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#2196f3"><u></u><u></u></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#2196f3"><u></u> </font><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Timothy Ola Akinfenwa <<a href="mailto:akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 11:51<br>
<b>To: </b>Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mje@posix.co.za</a>>, rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Andrew, <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018, 9:40 AM Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Timothy,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">AfriNIC HAS *<b>NEVER*
</b>publicly acknowledged the loss of a large portion of attachments associated with application documents. How is it that when we talk about audit and staff assessment – that it does not come to light to the community that Afrinic does not even have a large
amount of documentation associated with the applications that would demonstrate how they were applied for?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">This will be serious if true. I think the AFRINIC CEO should provide clarification to this. I will not like to be misled. Just in case this claim is
true, has it been remedied? When too? </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This documentation I still maintain is critical for a fair audit that covers all aspects – and if you do not have said documentation for ALL members – to act on it against SOME
members would be prejudicial.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">I agree with you on this, only if the above is confirmed to be correct. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So to refer to staff assessment – how was THIS not brought up in staff assessment – and does this not put paid to the lie that the staff assessment in and of itself is flawed?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">This has to be clarified too, just only if and only if your previous assertion was true! </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Timothy Ola Akinfenwa <<a href="mailto:akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 11:23<br>
<b>To: </b>Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Mark,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">See responses in-line <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018, 8:52 AM Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mje@posix.co.za</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>From what Andrew is saying - the policy should never have gone to last call if there have been no changes. That's how the PDP process is meant to work. In reality - if the whole community accepted seeing a policy for the second time - then fair enough -
but that is NOT the case here. I strongly oppose this policy. I have also watched the antics of the people pushing this policy and I think it was extremely rude and totally out of place for one of their party to call someone else in the room a "visitor" -
suggesting that that other person had no rights to be present. The person being subjected to this treatment provided much needed input (and policies) to the Policy Development Process - especially regarding IPv6 - which is our future.<br>
We should have no place for Name Calling. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">Not speaking for the person here, but I remembered watching it remotely where the said person clarified his statement. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>I never heard an apology either.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">I think you should watch again, the person apologised if his statement has been misinterpreted and even heard applause from the room afterwards. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>Anyway - I believe that the PDP Co-Chairs have made a mistake and this Policy has not reached a positive Consensus (actually quite the opposite to Positive). It should not be at last call.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>The Policy - if used - is also extremely dangerous to the existence and financial well being of the Company (AFRINIC).<br>
It really should be withdrawn.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#2196f3">I thought Staff Assessment was conducted. I believe this must have been sorted out and necessary clarification provided.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/1/18 9:15 AM, Andrew Alston wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sorry – I need to correct something in my email below –<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I said there were no _<i>substantive</i>_ changes since the last rejection of this policy – this is inaccurate – there were *<b>NO</b>* - changes – substantive or otherwise – zero
– zip – none – as per the website which publishes draft 6<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Andrew Alston <a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 09:27<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">"aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"</a>
<a href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><aleruchichuku@yahoo.com></a>, Daniel Yakmut
<a href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><yakmutd@googlemail.com></a>, Daniel Yakmut via RPD
<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Aleruchi,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">While I agree with everything you have said – let us also be pragmatic. This policy is pushed by the same crowd that walked to the microphone and agreed at the request of the community
to drop another policy, and then reneged on it. This policy has been rejected, as has the soft landing policy, over and over again – yet the authors do not give a damn about the will of the community or the good of the community. Go and watch the videos
of the Mauritian policy meeting – you will notice the same people involved in what happened there are involved in this policy as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The authors have clearly demonstrated that they care not a whit about what this community wants or believes is good for it, they have demonstrated bad faith, and shown that the
only thing they care about is shoving something through no matter the consequence – and the co-chairs have already shown that they either do not understand the concept of consensus – or simply do not care. Fact is – there is precedent on co-chairs being overturned
on appeal in another RIR – and when it happened – the person who was overturned – ceased to be a co-chair. These co-chairs however are insistent on a path that ignores the consensus process, and seem hell bent on forcing a situation where they are overturned
– yet again – or failing that forcing AfriNIC into an untenable and potentially costly process beyond the appeal process.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Reality is – there were _<i>no</i>_ substantive changes to this policy from the last time it was rejected – and the objections to the policy that were stated back then have never
been withdrawn, and by lack of changes in the text can be clearly demonstrated to not have been addressed – this flies in the very face of the definition of consensus – the co-chairs however simply do not care.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Welcome to what our PDP process has become – the bullying of the minority supported by co-chairs who do not understand consensus – to push through agendas that have zero to do with
the good of the community and more to do with standing your ground to prove that you can.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And btw – before I’m attacked – yes – I have proposed some controversial policies over the years – fact is – all of them were withdrawn when the community wanted that.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">aleruchi chuku via RPD <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b><a href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">"aleruchichuku@yahoo.com"</a>
<a href="mailto:aleruchichuku@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><aleruchichuku@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 1 December 2018 at 07:02<br>
<b>To: </b>Daniel Yakmut <a href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<yakmutd@googlemail.com></a>, Daniel Yakmut via RPD <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<rpd@afrinic.net></a>, rpd List <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It's very sad that this policy still lingers like a nightmare after it has been rejected over and over again. It has consistently bred anger and mistrust.
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Please for the sake of unity, I will advice the chairs to do what is right by the people. DROP THIS POLICY.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Aleruchi<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 4:15 am, Daniel Yakmut via RPD<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><rpd@afrinic.net></a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>RPD mailing list<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
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