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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Andrew,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>While I sympathize with your position on the soft landing proposals, and even accepting all the facts below are true, the fact remains that you were attacking the man (ad hominem) by impugning his motivations, not his arguments.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Mike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Andrew Alston [mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 05, 2018 10:37 AM<br><b>To:</b> Mike Burns <mike@iptrading.com>; 'Owen DeLong' <owen@delong.com>; 'Chevalier du Borg' <virtual.borg@gmail.com><br><b>Cc:</b> 'AfriNIC RPD MList.' <rpd@afrinic.net><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [rpd] Questions for Alain...<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Mike,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Nothing ad-hominem about this – <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Fact – a policy was proposed that the community rejected <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Fact – the community asked for the policy to be withdrawn – multiple times <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Fact – Alain refused to withdraw and then denied that the community had demanded such – despite it being on video<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Fact – The policy was some how shoved through – and appealed <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Fact – the appeal was granted<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Fact – Alain then slammed the integrity of the appeal committee and accused them of malfeasance – again – that’s on video <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>All of this – over a 3 period while railing against people who wanted IP space and doing everything in his power to ensure that people could not GET the space they needed by policy – while also holding a block of space for his employer that remains unannounced other than 25% of it announced by a commercial ASN – while pushing for an audit policy that anyone can clearly see was designed to target specific individuals – and I can name them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>To then turn around and open a broker – while attempting to use policy to swing things like this with no declaration of interest – might be within the rules – but it is in my opinion – shockingly bad ethics and at the very least – shows a total lack of judgement<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Mike Burns [<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mailto:mike@iptrading.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> 05 June 2018 17:11<br><b>To:</b> 'Owen DeLong' <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>>; 'Chevalier du Borg' <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> 'AfriNIC RPD MList.' <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Questions for Alain...<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>“There’s nothing wrong with being a broker” – Owen<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for that, Owen. <span style='font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif'>😉</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>More to the point, there is nothing wrong with a broker authoring policy.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I agree that it’s better to be open about being a broker when authoring policy.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>However this thread began entirely as an ad hominem.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>+1 to the previous poster who said it’s past time for Africa to get in sync with the rest of the world regarding the IPv4 market.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Owen DeLong [<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">mailto:owen@delong.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 05, 2018 9:14 AM<br><b>To:</b> Chevalier du Borg <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> AfriNIC RPD MList. <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Questions for Alain...<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>There’s nothing wrong with being a broker. However, the SL-BIS proposal is one which brokers stand to profit from. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Your analogy of the doctor doesn’t apply because the doctor isn’t profiting from it when you stop smoking. Indeed, you’re improved health might actually cost him money. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>This would be more like having the doctor encourage your smoking and then discovering that he also owned a tobacco company. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Not only is it bad medical advice, but turns out the doctor stands to profit from it if the community takes his bad advice. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Owen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Jun 5, 2018, at 04:19, Chevalier du Borg <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Dear M. Alson<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Is there a logic arguement in here somewhere? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ad-hominem is not logic<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>After all, yourself have defended broker on this list saying there nothing wrong with it. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The doctor advise to STOP smoking is still good advice for you, even if doctor hisself is a big smoker.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Le mar. 5 juin 2018 à 14:31, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>You have actively supported and fought for the new soft landing policy – to artificially restrict space to entities that need it. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>Now, I’d like to ask – as an author of the soft-landing-bis policy which you have STILL not withdrawn… aren’t you just a LITTLE bit conflicted in trying to create an artificial shortage and make it hard for people to get space – while starting and founding an IP broker in Africa?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>Maybe now we understand the *<b>true</b>* motivations behind the soft landing bis policy….<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB><a href="http://ext-host.trstech.net/ipregistrar/trust_us.html" target="_blank">http://ext-host.trstech.net/ipregistrar/trust_us.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Borg le Chevalier<br>___________________________________<br>"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat" <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></body></html>