<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">While I agree ad hominem has no place in policy debates, I think there is validity in this case to attacking the credibility of his arguments based on what is now a visible previously undisclosed conflict of interest. If he had merely proposed or advocated for the policy, it would be one thing, but his intransigent refusal to withdraw the policy despite repeated rejection by the community establishes a pattern of facts which invites scrutiny of his motivations and the credibility of his arguments in light of recent disclosures.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 5, 2018, at 08:03 , Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" class="">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi Andrew,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">While I sympathize with your position on the soft landing proposals, and even accepting all the facts below are true, the fact remains that you were attacking the man (ad hominem) by impugning his motivations, not his arguments.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Mike<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Andrew Alston [<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 05, 2018 10:37 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mike@iptrading.com</a>>; 'Owen DeLong' <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">owen@delong.com</a>>; 'Chevalier du Borg' <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'AfriNIC RPD MList.' <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE: [rpd] Questions for Alain...<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Mike,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Nothing ad-hominem about this –<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Fact – a policy was proposed that the community rejected<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Fact – the community asked for the policy to be withdrawn – multiple times<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Fact – Alain refused to withdraw and then denied that the community had demanded such – despite it being on video<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Fact – The policy was some how shoved through – and appealed<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Fact – the appeal was granted<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Fact – Alain then slammed the integrity of the appeal committee and accused them of malfeasance – again – that’s on video<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">All of this – over a 3 period while railing against people who wanted IP space and doing everything in his power to ensure that people could not GET the space they needed by policy – while also holding a block of space for his employer that remains unannounced other than 25% of it announced by a commercial ASN – while pushing for an audit policy that anyone can clearly see was designed to target specific individuals – and I can name them.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">To then turn around and open a broker – while attempting to use policy to swing things like this with no declaration of interest – might be within the rules – but it is in my opinion – shockingly bad ethics and at the very least – shows a total lack of judgement<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Andrew<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mike Burns [<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:mike@iptrading.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>05 June 2018 17:11<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Owen DeLong' <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">owen@delong.com</a>>; 'Chevalier du Borg' <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'AfriNIC RPD MList.' <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [rpd] Questions for Alain...<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">“There’s nothing wrong with being a broker” – Owen<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Thanks for that, Owen.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-family: "Segoe UI Emoji", sans-serif;" class="">😉</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">More to the point, there is nothing wrong with a broker authoring policy.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I agree that it’s better to be open about being a broker when authoring policy.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">However this thread began entirely as an ad hominem.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">+1 to the previous poster who said it’s past time for Africa to get in sync with the rest of the world regarding the IPv4 market.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Owen DeLong [<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:owen@delong.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 05, 2018 9:14 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Chevalier du Borg <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>AfriNIC RPD MList. <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [rpd] Questions for Alain...<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">There’s nothing wrong with being a broker. However, the SL-BIS proposal is one which brokers stand to profit from. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Your analogy of the doctor doesn’t apply because the doctor isn’t profiting from it when you stop smoking. Indeed, you’re improved health might actually cost him money. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">This would be more like having the doctor encourage your smoking and then discovering that he also owned a tobacco company. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Not only is it bad medical advice, but turns out the doctor stands to profit from it if the community takes his bad advice. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Owen<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br class="">On Jun 5, 2018, at 04:19, Chevalier du Borg <<a href="mailto:virtual.borg@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">virtual.borg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Dear M. Alson<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Is there a logic arguement in here somewhere? <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Ad-hominem is not logic<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">After all, yourself have defended broker on this list saying there nothing wrong with it. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The doctor advise to STOP smoking is still good advice for you, even if doctor hisself is a big smoker.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Le mar. 5 juin 2018 à 14:31, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> a écrit :<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">You have actively supported and fought for the new soft landing policy – to artificially restrict space to entities that need it. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Now, I’d like to ask – as an author of the soft-landing-bis policy which you have STILL not withdrawn… aren’t you just a LITTLE bit conflicted in trying to create an artificial shortage and make it hard for people to get space – while starting and founding an IP broker in Africa?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Maybe now we understand the *<b class="">true</b>* motivations behind the soft landing bis policy….<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><a href="http://ext-host.trstech.net/ipregistrar/trust_us.html" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://ext-host.trstech.net/ipregistrar/trust_us.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Andrew<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">RPD mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br clear="all" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Borg le Chevalier<br class="">___________________________________<br class="">"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">RPD mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>