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<div style="direction:ltr">One person?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">When did Mark, Saul, Owen, Michelle, Myself, Nishal, Sander and all those who legitimately signed the petition to object to this policy become one person.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">You know - in preparing the appeal - I noticed something interesting about the floor debates as I watched hours and hours of video footage on this debate - those who went to the microphone - always - always stated the basis for their
objection.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">In almost every case where support was indicated for this proposal - almost no reasoning was given - and often the people at the microphone who were supporting - rather than support the substance of the policy - were actually there
to attack the views of the opponents of the policy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">It made me question - are people supporting this proposal on substance - or on who wrote it. Why are there so few responses that actually rebut the arguments given by the opponents of the policy. When you disagree and wish to address
an issue - it is common practice to address said issue through constructive debate that includes stating why you disagree and on what grounds.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Instead - all I heard was - I support this policy and disagree with everything X opponent said. In fact in the case of Markus - on video - there was a promise to produce a proper rebuttal by the following morning - it never arrived.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">The opponents of this policy have clearly and carefully articulated why we think this is damaging and why we believe it is harmful / if people wish to dispute those views - let’s see it done with coherent facts and backed by evidence.
After all - I also noticed that a vast percentage of the opponents of this are from academia - and is it not a fundamental academic principle that any hypothesis must be tested?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Let us let the appeal committee now do their work - I think the appeal case is clear</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Andrew</div>
</div>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> grace mupoyi <gracemupoyi@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 3, 2018 9:23:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> rpd List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 136, Issue 10</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Boubacar,
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You are right. Un my point of view, Afrinic must use democratic way doing thinks. It is not just because one person in the organization have his own interest (business) and want lead it at Afrinic. </div>
<div dir="auto">For the Policy, I think the board must check how must people are against before to remove it or change something.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Afrinic it is for Africa not for one person. So, every Africa citizen must get part on that.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Regards</div>
<div dir="auto">Grace Mupoyi</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">Le 3 janv. 2018 7:04 PM, <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Softlanding-Bis decision appeal (Boubakar Barry)<br>
2. Re: Softlanding-Bis decision appeal (Owen DeLong)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 15:50:25 +0000<br>
From: Boubakar Barry <<a href="mailto:boubakarbarry@gmail.com">boubakarbarry@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a>><br>
Cc: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Softlanding-Bis decision appeal<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAGrBSShOECh%2BjZv7Zd8adY_r_3NGtTp2dNwnApf1QRmVNhhUtA@mail.gmail.com">CAGrBSShOECh+jZv7Zd8adY_r_<wbr>3NGtTp2dNwnApf1QRmVNhhUtA@<wbr>mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Large segment of the community? I wonder how one can get to this statement.<br>
<br>
Facts remain facts, no matter how often one repeats him/herself. One can<br>
write/talk hundreds of times, his/her voice cannot count more than once.<br>
<br>
Yes, I know we are not voting here. But if one looks objectively at the<br>
number of people (the same ones) who are opposing this and other policies<br>
aiming at preserving IP resources for Africa, then it becomes clear that a<br>
small group of people wants to hold AfriNIC at ransom. And this is going on<br>
for years.<br>
<br>
No one who cares about Africa's interests should accept that.<br>
<br>
Boubakar<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Andrew Alston <<br>
<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> As you say Noah - agreeing to disagree is ok and normal - so why can we<br>
> not do that in the case of this proposal - there are a large segment of the<br>
> community who disagree with it - and if we agreed to disagree - we go back<br>
> to the status quo and there is no consensus - instead it seems we are being<br>
> ?forced to agree? - but for all the reasons stated and reiterated and never<br>
> responded to - we will not be forced into agreement on this policy - we<br>
> disagree with it - let?s agree to disagree and move on with life - and the<br>
> status quo (the current soft landing)<br>
><br>
> Andrew<br>
><br>
> Get Outlook for iOS <<a rel="noreferrer" href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" target="_blank">https://aka.ms/o0ukef</a>><br>
> _____________________________<br>
> From: Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>><br>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:24 AM<br>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] Softlanding-Bis decision appeal<br>
> To: Frank Habicht <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>><br>
> Cc: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 3 Jan 2018 16:00, "Frank Habicht" <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
> On 1/3/2018 3:45 PM, Noah wrote:<br>
> > Hi Frank,<br>
> ><br>
> > I believe your points raised above were addressed and repeated many<br>
> > times and archives are there, but just to retariate that;<br>
> ><br>
> > 1. The global community accepted in 2009 a softlanding policy which<br>
> > granted AFRINIC just like other regions this last /8.<br>
><br>
> Yes.<br>
><br>
> > 2. AFRINIC would not have had that last /8 if the normal allocation<br>
> > rules had continued to the end on IANA pool (need based and 1st come,<br>
> > 1st serve)<br>
><br>
> Yes.<br>
><br>
> > 3. The last /8 which is a subject of the current softlanding policy and<br>
> > all the proposals we've seen to amend it was meant for specific<br>
> > purposes. Please<br>
> > read <a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/13" target="_blank">
https://www.afrinic.net/en/<wbr>library/policies/current/13</a><br>
> 5-afpub-2009-v4-001<br>
> > <<a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/135-afp" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/en/<wbr>library/policies/current/135-<wbr>afp</a><br>
> ub-2009-v4-001><br>
><br>
> Yes.<br>
><br>
> > 4. Nobody, not even AFRINIC is locking useful numbering resources as<br>
> > allocations will continue as usual, folks are encouraged to adopt IPv6<br>
> > and provision is made for resource members to facilitate the transition.<br>
><br>
> As per the softlanding policy already in place.<br>
> And the need to change to more stringent criteria ... ?<br>
> ... is in my opinion not something we have a consensus about.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Ok<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I believe if you say there is a consensus and I say there is no<br>
> consensus, then the conclusion is that there is no consensus between us,<br>
> or even in the larger group.<br>
><br>
><br>
> IMHO, the co-chairs are best placed to determine consensus vs no consensus.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Would you agree to these statements?<br>
><br>
><br>
> If its just between me and you... we can agree to disagree and that is<br>
> normal.<br>
><br>
> Noah<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a rel="noreferrer" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">
https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 09:59:53 -0800<br>
From: Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
To: Boubakar Barry <<a href="mailto:boubakarbarry@gmail.com">boubakarbarry@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Softlanding-Bis decision appeal<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:263891D9-1D0B-473C-AE90-5F33FA88352D@delong.com">263891D9-1D0B-473C-AE90-<wbr>5F33FA88352D@delong.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Jan 3, 2018, at 07:50 , Boubakar Barry <<a href="mailto:boubakarbarry@gmail.com">boubakarbarry@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Large segment of the community? I wonder how one can get to this statement.<br>
><br>
> Facts remain facts, no matter how often one repeats him/herself. One can write/talk hundreds of times, his/her voice cannot count more than once.<br>
<br>
True.<br>
<br>
However, more than 20 petitioners, Andrew Alston, myself (Owen DeLong), Mark Elkins, Sander Steffan, Frank Habicht, Saul Stein, and others have all spoken out against this proposal. That?s more than 25 people in a community where the total number of participants
in a policy debate is often less than 50. Indeed, I think the number of participants in this case is probably less than 100. If you don?t think that 25+ constitutes a large segment of ~100 people, then I?d like to know how you come to that conclusion.<br>
<br>
You don?t have to be a majority to be a large segment of a population.<br>
<br>
> Yes, I know we are not voting here. But if one looks objectively at the number of people (the same ones) who are opposing this and other policies aiming at preserving IP resources for Africa, then it becomes clear that a small group of people wants to hold
AfriNIC at ransom. And this is going on for years.<br>
<br>
Please.<br>
<br>
This policy doesn?t preserve resources. It prevents them from being used. The same number of resources will exist whether they are sitting on a shelf unused at AfriNIC or Nobody is trying to hold AfriNIC at ransom. We have a legitimate disagreement about how
the resources should be used. I?m not even a direct recipient of AfriNIC resources and most of the deployed number resources my company uses in Africa come from other RIRs. I don?t actually have a dog in this fight. I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose
personally or professionally by this policy. My participation in the process is strictly based in my desire to see us do what is best for the AfriNIC constituency and for the internet as a whole.<br>
<br>
> No one who cares about Africa's interests should accept that.<br>
<br>
This is where the rhetoric from the proposal supporters starts to again border on ad hominem. Attempting to characterize those of us that oppose this policy (and other policies we believe are destructive rather than helpful to the internet) as:<br>
<br>
1. Trying to hold the community ransom<br>
2. Acting in bad faith<br>
3. Not caring about Africa?s interest<br>
<br>
Really don?t do anything to advance your position or the proposal. They only serve to infuriate and increase the emotion in what should be more a discussion of facts and a collegial difference of opinions about those facts.<br>
<br>
Owen<br>
<br>
><br>
> Boubakar<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@<wbr>liquidtelecom.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> As you say Noah - agreeing to disagree is ok and normal - so why can we not do that in the case of this proposal - there are a large segment of the community who disagree with it - and if we agreed to disagree - we go back to the status quo and there is no
consensus - instead it seems we are being ?forced to agree? - but for all the reasons stated and reiterated and never responded to - we will not be forced into agreement on this policy - we disagree with it - let?s agree to disagree and move on with life -
and the status quo (the current soft landing)<br>
><br>
> Andrew<br>
><br>
> Get Outlook for iOS <<a rel="noreferrer" href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" target="_blank">https://aka.ms/o0ukef</a>><br>
> _____________________________<br>
> From: Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>>><br>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:24 AM<br>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] Softlanding-Bis decision appeal<br>
> To: Frank Habicht <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz">geier@geier.ne.tz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>>><br>
> Cc: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 3 Jan 2018 16:00, "Frank Habicht" <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz">geier@geier.ne.tz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>>> wrote:<br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
> On 1/3/2018 3:45 PM, Noah wrote:<br>
> > Hi Frank,<br>
> ><br>
> > I believe your points raised above were addressed and repeated many<br>
> > times and archives are there, but just to retariate that;<br>
> ><br>
> > 1. The global community accepted in 2009 a softlanding policy which<br>
> > granted AFRINIC just like other regions this last /8.<br>
><br>
> Yes.<br>
><br>
> > 2. AFRINIC would not have had that last /8 if the normal allocation<br>
> > rules had continued to the end on IANA pool (need based and 1st come,<br>
> > 1st serve)<br>
><br>
> Yes.<br>
><br>
> > 3. The last /8 which is a subject of the current softlanding policy and<br>
> > all the proposals we've seen to amend it was meant for specific<br>
> > purposes. Please<br>
> > read <a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/135-afpub-2009-v4-001" target="_blank">
https://www.afrinic.net/en/<wbr>library/policies/current/135-<wbr>afpub-2009-v4-001</a> <<a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/135-afpub-2009-v4-001" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/en/<wbr>library/policies/current/135-<wbr>afpub-2009-v4-001</a>><br>
> > <<a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/135-afpub-2009-v4-001" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/en/<wbr>library/policies/current/135-<wbr>afpub-2009-v4-001</a> <<a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/135-afpub-2009-v4-001" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/en/<wbr>library/policies/current/135-<wbr>afpub-2009-v4-001</a>>><br>
><br>
> Yes.<br>
><br>
> > 4. Nobody, not even AFRINIC is locking useful numbering resources as<br>
> > allocations will continue as usual, folks are encouraged to adopt IPv6<br>
> > and provision is made for resource members to facilitate the transition.<br>
><br>
> As per the softlanding policy already in place.<br>
> And the need to change to more stringent criteria ... ?<br>
> ... is in my opinion not something we have a consensus about.<br>
><br>
> Ok<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I believe if you say there is a consensus and I say there is no<br>
> consensus, then the conclusion is that there is no consensus between us,<br>
> or even in the larger group.<br>
><br>
> IMHO, the co-chairs are best placed to determine consensus vs no consensus.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Would you agree to these statements?<br>
><br>
> If its just between me and you... we can agree to disagree and that is normal.<br>
><br>
> Noah<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br>
> <a rel="noreferrer" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">
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><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
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</blockquote>
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