<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 3, 2018, at 07:50 , Boubakar Barry <<a href="mailto:boubakarbarry@gmail.com" class="">boubakarbarry@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Large segment of the community? I wonder how one can get to this statement.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Facts remain facts, no matter how often one repeats him/herself. One can write/talk hundreds of times, his/her voice cannot count more than once.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>True.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>However, more than 20 petitioners, Andrew Alston, myself (Owen DeLong), Mark Elkins, Sander Steffan, Frank Habicht, Saul Stein, and others have all spoken out against this proposal. That’s more than 25 people in a community where the total number of participants in a policy debate is often less than 50. Indeed, I think the number of participants in this case is probably less than 100. If you don’t think that 25+ constitutes a large segment of ~100 people, then I’d like to know how you come to that conclusion.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>You don’t have to be a majority to be a large segment of a population.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Yes, I know we are not voting here. But if one looks objectively at the number of people (the same ones) who are opposing this and other policies aiming at preserving IP resources for Africa, then it becomes clear that a small group of people wants to hold AfriNIC at ransom. And this is going on for years.<br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Please.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>This policy doesn’t preserve resources. It prevents them from being used. The same number of resources will exist whether they are sitting on a shelf unused at AfriNIC or Nobody is trying to hold AfriNIC at ransom. We have a legitimate disagreement about how the resources should be used. I’m not even a direct recipient of AfriNIC resources and most of the deployed number resources my company uses in Africa come from other RIRs. I don’t actually have a dog in this fight. I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose personally or professionally by this policy. My participation in the process is strictly based in my desire to see us do what is best for the AfriNIC constituency and for the internet as a whole.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">No one who cares about Africa's interests should accept that.<br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>This is where the rhetoric from the proposal supporters starts to again border on ad hominem. Attempting to characterize those of us that oppose this policy (and other policies we believe are destructive rather than helpful to the internet) as:</div><div><br class=""></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Trying to hold the community ransom</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Acting in bad faith</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Not caring about Africa’s interest</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Really don’t do anything to advance your position or the proposal. They only serve to infuriate and increase the emotion in what should be more a discussion of facts and a collegial difference of opinions about those facts.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""></div>Boubakar<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Andrew Alston <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div style="direction:ltr" class="">As you say Noah - agreeing to disagree is ok and normal - so why can we not do that in the case of this proposal - there are a large segment of the community who disagree with it - and if we agreed to disagree - we go back to the
status quo and there is no consensus - instead it seems we are being “forced to agree” - but for all the reasons stated and reiterated and never responded to - we will not be forced into agreement on this policy - we disagree with it - let’s agree to disagree
and move on with life - and the status quo (the current soft landing)</div><span class="">
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<div style="direction:ltr" class="">Andrew </div>
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<div class="m_2410689234937239741acompli_signature">Get <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" target="_blank" class="">Outlook for iOS</a></div>
</span><div class="gmail_quote">_____________________________<br class="">
From: Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank" class="">noah@neo.co.tz</a>><br class="">
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:24 AM<span class=""><br class="">
Subject: Re: [rpd] Softlanding-Bis decision appeal<br class=""></span>
To: Frank Habicht <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz" target="_blank" class="">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>><br class="">
Cc: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><div class=""><div class="h5"><br class="">
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<div class="gmail_quote">On 3 Jan 2018 16:00, "Frank Habicht" <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz" target="_blank" class="">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution" class="">
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Hi,<br class="">
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On 1/3/2018 3:45 PM, Noah wrote:<br class="">
> Hi Frank,<br class="">
><br class="">
> I believe your points raised above were addressed and repeated many<br class="">
> times and archives are there, but just to retariate that;<br class="">
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> 1. The global community accepted in 2009 a softlanding policy which<br class="">
> granted AFRINIC just like other regions this last /8.<br class="">
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Yes.<br class="">
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> 2. AFRINIC would not have had that last /8 if the normal allocation<br class="">
> rules had continued to the end on IANA pool (need based and 1st come,<br class="">
> 1st serve)<br class="">
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Yes.<br class="">
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> 3. The last /8 which is a subject of the current softlanding policy and<br class="">
> all the proposals we've seen to amend it was meant for specific<br class="">
> purposes. Please<br class="">
> read <a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/135-afpub-2009-v4-001" target="_blank" class="">https://www.afrinic.net/<wbr class="">en/library/policies/current/13<wbr class="">5-afpub-2009-v4-001</a><br class="">
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> <<a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/135-afpub-2009-v4-001" target="_blank" class="">https://www.afrinic.net/en/li<wbr class="">brary/policies/current/135-afp<wbr class="">ub-2009-v4-001</a>><br class="">
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Yes.<br class="">
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> 4. Nobody, not even AFRINIC is locking useful numbering resources as<br class="">
> allocations will continue as usual, folks are encouraged to adopt IPv6<br class="">
> and provision is made for resource members to facilitate the transition.<br class="">
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As per the softlanding policy already in place.<br class="">
And the need to change to more stringent criteria ... ?<br class="">
... is in my opinion not something we have a consensus about.<br class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">Ok</div>
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I believe if you say there is a consensus and I say there is no<br class="">
consensus, then the conclusion is that there is no consensus between us,<br class="">
or even in the larger group.<br class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">IMHO, the co-chairs are best placed to determine consensus vs no consensus.</div>
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Would you agree to these statements?<br class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">If its just between me and you... we can agree to disagree and that is normal.</div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">Noah</div>
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