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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Abel,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Sorry – but you are flat out wrong.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">What if an AFRICAN company is expanding outside of Africa – and is serving clients that require L3VPN services in the Europe and in Africa – and require IP space to number those L3VPN services
on all branches, and the AFRICAN company cannot get space in Europe? Are you telling me that the African company must forgo the business and give it to their European rivals because they cannot get space to number their clients, while they have space available
to them?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Sorry – that isn’t in policy – it’s not in the rules – and I can point to literally hundreds of ISP’s from ALL the RIR’s that operate on multi-national basis that are using space distributed
across their entire network irrespective of the RIR’s they got it from – let me know if you want examples of this – I’ll provide. If you want to claim best practice – justify it – substantiate it – who’s best practice is this and where is it documented.
What is the BCP #, where is the BCOP document and who ratified it? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">It doesn’t exist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">abel ELITCHA <kmw.elitcha@gmail.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, 24 July 2017 at 16:35<br>
<b>To: </b>Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz" <dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz>, rpd List <rpd@afrinic.net><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 - Internet Number Resources Review by AFRINIC"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Afrinic as Regional Internet Registry mainly serve organizations, companies operating in this region and their users in this region. Providers which span multiple regions are supposed to establish relationships with multiple RIRS.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Using part of the AFRINIC allocated resources outside the region is not prohibited by default if justified and accepted.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Hence, policies cannot explicitely prohibit this. It is left to staff to apply what it is said above and follow BCPs. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The RIGHT thing to do is what this community started last year with the review policy proposal. Empower staff and define clear rules on how to review allocated resources utilization to see how they match the objectives of the Regional
Internet Registry system and the initial justification of needs.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2017-07-20 12:41 GMT+00:00 Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Daniel,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">The problem here is deeper than what you see.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Firstly, there is nothing in any policy that requires an LIR to have an ASN to announce said space.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Secondly – there is nothing in any policy that states that IP addresses assigned to entity that is domiciled in the AFRINIC region
must be utilized within the region – it simply isn’t there</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Thirdly – There is nothing in any policy that prohibits charging for IP space – and in fact this is extremely common practice
in many African ISPs (You get X number of IP addresses with the link you purchase, or a dynamic IP, if you want more, or you want static IP addresses, you pay extra)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Forth – One of the stated reasons that the LIR pricing from AFRINIC is so much higher than the end user pricing is that LIRs have
the ability to recover the cost from the market – end users don’t.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Fifth – the requirements in the policy says that you have to have infrastructure to utilize the space – the problem with this
is there is no definition of infrastructure – if you are assigning space to other entities and are legitimately swipping the space to those entities – the infrastructure you yourself require is a system that tracks how the space is assigned and a system capable
of communicating the swip updates to AFRINIC – nothing more.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Now – let me state categorically – I oppose anyone charging for address space assigned by an RIR – if they have bought space on
the secondary market and paid secondary market prices – then I can understand an attempt to regain the cost of said IP space – but beyond that – I have always taken the stance that ISP’s charging for space is a bad idea. I do not however oppose the secondary
market in the event of space being unavailable from an RIR. I also do not dispute the requirements of needs based justification – though in an open secondary market it is my personal opinion that the need for this is reduced, since the economics involved
will ensure adherence to needs base.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">However, what it comes down to is this – if a cloud services provider, or a broker, can justify space within the bounds of policy
– then the issues we face with individuals getting large amounts of space and leasing it out to people around the world – are our fault – because we did not modify the allocation policies. We cannot blame those who use the policies as they are written and
use the loopholes we choose to provide. We have to take responsibility for not tightening the policies – not attempt to create audit policies and revocation policies to revoke space that was legitimately assigned within the bounds of policy.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Basically – what I am saying to this community is this – do not blame those who use the policies you yourself have passed – if
you don’t like the policies – change them – and if you cannot get consensus on changing the policy then accept that the community does not agree this is a problem – that is what bottom up process is about.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">For example – I will oppose any geographic restriction on where space can be used until such time as someone comes up with a concrete
way to define geographic usage of space – something that has been attempted many times over the last few years and has failed every time.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Until such time as someone can concretely demonstrate that someone has been allocated space outside of allocation policies though
– or is using them outside of the rules under which they are allocated – there is no cause to do anything – and auditing without evidence or without any concrete suspicion of violation of policy is simply not practical. The real issue here is – the policies
allow the behavior you describe – like it or not – and this community has chosen not to change those policies despite this issue being raised consistently over the last 5 or 6 years.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Andrew</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Mwanguhya Daniel Murungi <<a href="mailto:dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz" target="_blank">dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz</a>><br>
<b>Organization: </b>Techsupport Limited<br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"<a href="mailto:dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz" target="_blank">dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz</a>" <<a href="mailto:dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz" target="_blank">dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, 20 July 2017 at 19:12<br>
<b>To: </b>Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" target="_blank">mike@iptrading.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>'rpd List' <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 - Internet Number Resources Review by AFRINIC"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Courier">Hello,<br>
<br>
I came across this various services offered by Larus cloud services amongst them IPv4 sales/trading.
<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.laruscloudservice.net/ip-delegation-service" target="_blank">https://www.laruscloudservice.net/ip-delegation-service</a><br>
<br>
Below is an excerpt from the site;<br>
<br>
----------------------<br>
[IP DELEGATION SERVICE]<br>
LARUS has a mega pool of IPv4 addresses to provide unmatched IPv4 address solutions in the world. IP addresses will be delegated to you directly from Larus’s own IP pool. You will use the IP addresses like yours without limitation on geography and usage. This
is a flexible and speedy service to meet your business needs.<br>
----------------------<br>
<br>
Honestly, I wonder how much IPv4 space from the AFRINIC pool is owned by the organization Larus Cloud Services?
<br>
<br>
I run a couple of whois queries and found the following:<br>
<br>
(Organization) : whois -h <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" target="_blank">
whois.afrinic.net</a> 'Larus Cloud Service'<br>
----------------------<br>
<br>
organisation: ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC<br>
org-name: Larus cloud service Limited<br>
org-type: LIR<br>
country: SC<br>
address: C/o Abacus (Seychelles) Limited<br>
address: Mont Fleuri, Mahe<br>
phone: <a href="tel:+359%2089%20764%201784" target="_blank">+359 897641784</a><br>
phone: <a href="tel:+852%202988%208918" target="_blank">+852 2988 8918</a><br>
admin-c: HL6-AFRINIC<br>
tech-c: DH15-AFRINIC<br>
mnt-ref: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
mnt-ref: LCSL1-MNT<br>
mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
person: David Hilario<br>
address: Ul. Zaychar 54 floor 3, Apartment 11<br>
address: Sofia 1309<br>
address: Bulgaria<br>
phone: <a href="tel:+359%2089%20764%201784" target="_blank">+359 897641784</a><br>
nic-hdl: DH15-AFRINIC<br>
mnt-by: mine<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
person: Heng LU<br>
address: Ebene<br>
address: MU<br>
address: Mahe<br>
address: Seychelles<br>
phone: <a href="tel:+248%204%20610%20795" target="_blank">+248 4 610 795</a><br>
nic-hdl: HL6-AFRINIC<br>
mnt-by: HLU<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
----------------------<br>
<br>
Below is a list of resources held by Larus;<br>
<br>
whois -h <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" target="_blank">
whois.afrinic.net</a> -T aut-num -T inet6num -T inetnum -i og 'ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC'<br>
<br>
----------------------<br>
inetnum: 196.251.244.0 - 196.251.247.255<br>
netname: Larus-Cloud-v4<br>
descr: Larus cloud service Limited<br>
country: SC<br>
org: ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC<br>
admin-c: HL6-AFRINIC<br>
tech-c: DH15-AFRINIC<br>
status: ALLOCATED PA<br>
mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
mnt-lower: LCSL1-MNT<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
person: David Hilario<br>
address: Ul. Zaychar 54 floor 3, Apartment 11<br>
address: Sofia 1309<br>
address: Bulgaria<br>
phone: <a href="tel:+359%2089%20764%201784" target="_blank">+359 897641784</a><br>
nic-hdl: DH15-AFRINIC<br>
mnt-by: mine<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
person: Heng LU<br>
address: Ebene<br>
address: MU<br>
address: Mahe<br>
address: Seychelles<br>
phone: <a href="tel:+248%204%20610%20795" target="_blank">+248 4 610 795</a><br>
nic-hdl: HL6-AFRINIC<br>
mnt-by: HLU<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
----------------------<br>
<br>
One of the sub-allocations/assignment from above Block (<a href="http://196.251.244.0/22" target="_blank">196.251.244.0/22</a>) is actually assigned to some Saudi Arabia entity as per below whois query.<br>
<br>
whois -h <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" target="_blank">
whois.afrinic.net</a> -M '196.251.244.0 - 196.251.247.255'<br>
<br>
----------------------<br>
inetnum: 196.251.244.0 - 196.251.244.255<br>
netname: SA-ITC-20120518<br>
descr: Integrated Telecom Co. Ltd<br>
country: SA<br>
org: ORG-ITCL1-AFRINIC<br>
admin-c: IR1052-AFRINIC<br>
tech-c: IR1052-AFRINIC<br>
status: ASSIGNED PA<br>
mnt-by: LCSL1-MNT<br>
mnt-routes: LCSL1-MNT<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
----------------------<br>
<br>
Larus Cloud Services has no ASN and IPv6<br>
<br>
whois -h <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" target="_blank">
whois.afrinic.net</a> -T aut-num -T inet6num -i og 'ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC'<br>
<br>
Furthermore, I noticed that the domains <a href="http://laruscloudservice.net" target="_blank">
laruscloudservice.net</a> and <a href="http://cloudinnovation.org" target="_blank">
cloudinnovation.org</a> have the same owner.<br>
<br>
----------------------<br>
Domain Name: <a href="http://laruscloudservice.net" target="_blank">
laruscloudservice.net</a><br>
Registrant Name: Heng Lu<br>
Registrant Organization: Larus Cloud Service Limited.<br>
Registrant Street: 903 Dannies HSE<br>
Registrant Street: 20 LUARD RD<br>
Registrant City: WAN CHAI<br>
Registrant State/Province: HONG KONG<br>
Registrant Postal Code: 9741mh<br>
Registrant Country: HK<br>
Registrant Phone: <a href="tel:+31%206%2041734323" target="_blank">+31.641734323</a><br>
Registrant Phone Ext:<br>
Registrant Fax:<br>
Registrant Fax Ext:<br>
Registrant Email: <a href="mailto:h.lu@outsideheaven.com" target="_blank">h.lu@outsideheaven.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Domain Name: <a href="http://CLOUDINNOVATION.ORG" target="_blank">
CLOUDINNOVATION.ORG</a><br>
Registrant Name: Lu Heng<br>
Registrant Organization: AnytimeChinese<br>
Registrant Street: Esdoornlaan 656<br>
Registrant City: Groningen<br>
Registrant State/Province:<br>
Registrant Postal Code: 9741MH<br>
Registrant Country: NL<br>
Registrant Phone: <a href="tel:+31%206%2041734323" target="_blank">+31.641734323</a><br>
Registrant Phone Ext:<br>
Registrant Fax:<br>
Registrant Fax Ext:<br>
Registrant Email: <a href="mailto:er4tmx4khysehimnwr3s@l.o-w-o.info" target="_blank">
er4tmx4khysehimnwr3s@l.o-w-o.info</a><br>
<br>
----------------------<br>
<br>
Cloud innovation<br>
================<br>
<br>
Cloud innovation and Larus Cloud share the same physical address and contacts: <br>
<br>
whois -h <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" target="_blank">
whois.afrinic.net</a> 'CLOUD INNOVATION'<br>
<br>
----------------------<br>
organisation: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br>
org-name: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br>
org-type: LIR<br>
country: SC<br>
address: C/o Abacus (Seychelles) Limited<br>
address: Mont Fleuri, Mahe<br>
address: Seychelles<br>
address: Mahe<br>
phone: <a href="tel:+248%204%20610%20795" target="_blank">+248 4 610 795</a><br>
phone: <a href="tel:+248%204%20610%20795" target="_blank">+248 4 610 795</a><br>
admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
mnt-ref: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
mnt-ref: CIL1-MNT<br>
mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
person: OutsideHeaven Support<br>
nic-hdl: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
address: Ebene<br>
address: MU<br>
address: Mahe<br>
address: Seychelles<br>
phone: <a href="tel:+248%204%20610%20795" target="_blank">+248 4 610 795</a><br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
<br>
person: OutsideHeaven Support<br>
nic-hdl: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
address: Ebene<br>
address: MU<br>
address: Mahe<br>
address: Seychelles<br>
phone: <a href="tel:+248%204%20610%20795" target="_blank">+248 4 610 795</a><br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
----------------------<br>
<br>
In fact, Cloud Innovation Ltd has 2x /11 and 2x /12 IPv4 address space allocated to them:
<br>
<br>
whois -h <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" target="_blank">
whois.afrinic.net</a> -r -T aut-num -T inet6num -T inetnum -i og 'ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC'<br>
<br>
inetnum: 154.192.0.0 - 154.223.255.255<br>
netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-II<br>
descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br>
country: SC<br>
org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br>
admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
status: ALLOCATED PA<br>
mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
inetnum: 154.80.0.0 - 154.95.255.255<br>
netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I<br>
descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br>
country: SC<br>
org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br>
admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
status: ALLOCATED PA<br>
mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br>
mnt-domains: CIL1-MNT<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
<br>
inetnum: 156.224.0.0 - 156.255.255.255<br>
netname: CloudInnovation-infrastructure<br>
descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br>
country: SC<br>
org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br>
admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
status: ALLOCATED PA<br>
mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
inetnum: 45.192.0.0 - 45.207.255.255<br>
netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I<br>
descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br>
country: SC<br>
org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br>
admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
status: ALLOCATED PA<br>
mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br>
mnt-domains: CIL1-MNT<br>
source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
<br>
Cloud Innovation Ltd just like Larus Cloud Services doesn't have any ASN and IPv6 as an LIR with so much space.<br>
<br>
whois -h <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" target="_blank">
whois.afrinic.net</a> -T aut-num -T inet6num -i og 'ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC'<br>
<br>
Could all the above explain the vehement opposition of the people listed as contacts for both Larus Cloud Service and Cloud innovation [1]?<br>
<br>
If so much IPv4 space/resources above was allocated to these LIR's for legitimate purposes, it should not be a problem. They will pass review and have ability to use the intra RIR transfer too.
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
[1] Heng Lu and David Hilario</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Courier"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Courier">On 2017-07-19 22:55, Mike Burns wrote:
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:Courier">Hi Noah,<br>
<br>
There have been over 5,000 policy-compliant global IPv4 sales since<br>
2010.<br>
<br>
The concept is that the profit motive will incentivize those who hold<br>
unused addresses make them available to sell them to somebody with a<br>
need for them. This profit could be an incentive to renumber more<br>
efficiently to free up blocks, or to provide some compensation for the<br>
expense of that renumbering.<br>
<br>
Without the profit motive, the only other motive is charity.<br>
<br>
Charity has not proven to be effective in bringing unused addresses<br>
back to those who need them, but a market has proven to be quite<br>
effective. That said, I know that at least two /8 holders voluntarily<br>
returned their blocks to ARIN years ago.<br>
<br>
A RIPE study revealed that most address sales are of older legacy<br>
blocks that have not appeared in the routing table for a long time.<br>
<br>
This is evidence that the lure of profit has functioned more<br>
effectively than any prior threat of revocation to move addresses from<br>
a low- or no-use environment and into the hands of those who need them<br>
to run operational networks.<br>
<br>
In order to foster this market, other registries have removed the<br>
threat of revocation for utilization from their policies and RSAs in<br>
order to make it clear to prospective sellers that the registries will<br>
act as partners to address-holders seeking to sell, and not as judges<br>
or juries with the power of revocation.<br>
<br>
Yes, it is quite a shock that formerly public resources are now<br>
yielding windfalls for address holders, but the importance of creating<br>
a market to fulfill the needs of those seeking address has been judged<br>
to outweigh the queasiness we may feel when witnessing the enrichment<br>
of address-holders who sell their blocks.<br>
<br>
If the role of AFRINIC is to get blocks into the hands of those who<br>
need them, and the free pool is dry, what is the best way to answer<br>
that need? One way is to audit, revoke, and recover unutilized space. <br>
The other way is to harness the profit motive to lift unutilized<br>
addresses to their “highest and best” use.<br>
<br>
ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE debated these two options and chose the market<br>
route. I think 5,000 transfers is evidence that the correct decision<br>
was taken. <br>
<br>
LACNIC has also chosen to allow a market for IPv4 addresses to<br>
develop, but unlike the other registries, LACNIC has not removed the<br>
threat of revocation in its policies and RSA. A comparison in<br>
transfer volume between the LACNIC region and the other regions<br>
provides possible evidence that retaining the revocation threat is<br>
detrimental to the market, as the volume in LACNIC is very, very low,<br>
at 10 total transfers to date.<br>
<br>
And surely you know that people will be buying and selling IPv4 in<br>
Africa very soon:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2085-afrinic-board-ratifies-policy-proposal-ipv4-resources-transfer-within-the-afrinic-region" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2085-afrinic-board-ratifies-policy-proposal-ipv4-resources-transfer-within-the-afrinic-region</a><br>
<br>
I have facilitated transfers to recipients in 60 countries, and soon<br>
that will include African countries. I am proud to have helped get<br>
address blocks into the hands of the buyers in these countries, and<br>
there is nothing “so-called” about IP brokerage. It’s a new<br>
world, Noah, perhaps you should be the one bracing yourself.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Mike Burns<br>
<br>
IPTrading.com<br>
<br>
FROM: Noah [mailto:<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank">noah@neo.co.tz</a>]
<br>
SENT: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:22 PM<br>
TO: Bill Woodcock <<a href="mailto:woody@pch.net" target="_blank">woody@pch.net</a>><br>
CC: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
SUBJECT: Re: [rpd] Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 -<br>
Internet Number Resources Review by AFRINIC"<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Courier">On Jun 26, 2017, at 8:37 PM, Lu Heng <<a href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com" target="_blank">h.lu@anytimechinese.com</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Courier">wrote:
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Courier">This policy is in direct conflict with transfer policy, if someone</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Courier">wants to sell their address space, they surely not commit to use it<br>
with the original purpose, should AFRINIC instead of allowing them<br>
to transfer the space, but reclaim them and redistribute them for<br>
"better use"? If that is the case, the transfer policy will have no<br>
use because of that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:Courier"><br>
Woow<br>
<br>
So your worry is that someone will not be in a position to "sell" idle<br>
IP address space through the transfer policy?<br>
<br>
I always thought the fundamental premise was for INR's to be allocated<br>
for use that can promote internet expansion rather than profit from<br>
INR's.<br>
<br>
On 12 Jul 2017 9:14 a.m., "Bill Woodcock" <<a href="mailto:woody@pch.net" target="_blank">woody@pch.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Courier">I would just like to point out that the AfriNIC community does not<br>
exist to serve the financial interests of those who wish to sell<br>
addresses, rather than use them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:Courier"><br>
+ Bill <br>
<br>
And whoever in their wildest thoughts think the community shall seat<br>
back and see them trade IPv4 for any other reason beyond using them to<br>
build infracture and extend internet related services in AFRICA should<br>
brace themselves for now.<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Courier">The AfriNIC community is the community of people who need IP<br>
addresses, in order to route them and give people access to the<br>
Internet.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:Courier"><br>
+1 Bill<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Courier">The AfriNIC policy process exists to serve those who wish to _use_<br>
IP addresses, not those who wish to profit from them at the expense<br>
of the community.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Courier"><br>
+1 Bill<br>
<br>
Especially those who wish to profit from INR's especially the so<br>
called IPv4 brokers. There is AFRINIC for goodness sake.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Noah<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial;color:#073763">--Abel</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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