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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/07/2017 16:39, Andrew Alston
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1E25A295-E254-4FBF-9C47-E4B8E387D0D3@liquidtelecom.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Actually,
Marcus, you are *<b>HALF</b>* correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">There is *<b>NO</b>*
policy that prevents anyone from leasing IP space to a third
party through sub-allocations – on provision that your
application stated that you would assigning space to
customers. Indeed, this is a VERY common practice, and I
can name MULTIPLE ISP’s on this continent that are charging
their customers if the customer wants more than X number of
IP addresses, on a recurring revenue basis. It is *<b>NOT</b>*
against any policy, the policies are ENTIRELY silent on if
an LIR can charge for space that is assigned – and indeed –
in previous discussions one of the reasons I have heard for
LIR fees being far higher than end user fees is that LIR’s
have the option to recover the costs from the customers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Now – let me
also state – I am vehemently opposed to the charging of
customers for IP space – and it is something I do not
believe any ISP should be doing – but – that is *<b>personal
opinion</b>* - that is not what the policies say. <br>
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
:-)<br>
<br>
So essentially you build your AFRINIC fees for address space into
what you charge the Customer. However, if a Customer justifies more
space, you currently don't charge them for the extra space. That's
fine.<br>
<br>
:-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1E25A295-E254-4FBF-9C47-E4B8E387D0D3@liquidtelecom.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> So to say that
LIR’s are not allowed to “sell” IP addresses to their
customers through sub-allocations or assignments – is only
accurate if the sale is done on a permanent basis. It is *<b>ENTIRELY</b>*
within the policy to assign space, either through
sub-allocation or through assignment, and it is *<b>ENTIRELY</b>*
within the policy for the LIR to change whatever the hell
they like for that service.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">It all depends
on what was stated in the original application.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">"Marcus K.
G. Adomey" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:madomey@hotmail.com"><madomey@hotmail.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, 24 July 2017 at 11:41<br>
<b>To: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz">"dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz"><dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz></a>, David Hilario
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net"><d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>rpd List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Last Call for
"AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 - Internet Number Resources
Review by AFRINIC"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Dear
David,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">I
find your email rather strange if you can admit to
selling/trading of IP Addresses.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">At
the current state of affairs, LIRs are not allowed to
sell IP Addresses to their customers through
sub-allocations and assignments.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Afrinic
intra transfer policy is even yet to be implemented and
its rules are also very clear on how resources can be
transferred.
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Passing
additional allocations evaluation (and we trust Afrinic
staff for always doing their job) is super.
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Equally
passing a resource utilization review is also a
requirement and desirable by serious LIR's willing to
prove to their customer's base that their business is
risk-free.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">You're
concerned by the impact of the policy on other members
and not on your own LIR's account? Fantastic!!!<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">The
PDWG is open and they are free to express themselves,
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Your
historical concerns about deregistration, threat
of legal risks to Afrinic and opposition of the review
policy dictate the contrary of what you claimed here.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">You
clearly have a conflict of Interest in the discussions
on this policy proposal and this must be taken into
account.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Marcus<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr size="2" align="center" width="98%">
</div>
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">
David Hilario <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net"><d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 20, 2017 12:50:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz">dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> rpd List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Last Call for
"AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 - Internet Number Resources
Review by AFRINIC"</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Hello
Daniel,<br>
<br>
Thank you for showing interest in our services.<br>
<br>
If you have any questions, please feel free to direct them
towards me<br>
or to our generic email.<br>
<br>
LIRs by definition are there to issue address space to
their customers<br>
and services.<br>
Our operations are fully policy compliant, we have passed
additional<br>
reviews for each additional allocations issued by AFRINIC.<br>
<br>
If you want more example of large allocations within
AFRINIC you can<br>
also check, you can easily sort by date and unique ID per
resource<br>
holder:<br>
<a
href="ftp://ftp.afrinic.net/pub/stats/afrinic/delegated-afrinic-extended-latest"
moz-do-not-send="true">ftp://ftp.afrinic.net/pub/stats/afrinic/delegated-afrinic-extended-latest</a><br>
<br>
It will help you find more LIRs with large allocated
pools, all of<br>
them having passed the rigorous AFRINIC verifications
before being<br>
issued their allocations.<br>
<br>
Now, my opposition against the review policy is not for
our own<br>
operations which you try to make it sound like.<br>
We already passed so many checks and verification from
AFRINIC during<br>
each additional allocations that AFRINIC knows our network
and<br>
operations inside out.<br>
So a review would be the least of our worries, and would
in our case<br>
be pretty straight forward and simple.<br>
<br>
Secondly, why would we transfer away any of our space?<br>
We are running a network with our clients using these IP
address,<br>
selling off IPs is only done when you are not needing your
space<br>
anymore, basically your company is going bust or your
business<br>
operations have changed.<br>
<br>
David Hilario<br>
<br>
IP Manager<br>
<br>
Larus Cloud Service Limited<br>
<br>
p: +852 29888918 m: +359 89 764 1784<br>
f: +852 29888068<br>
a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen
Wan, HKSAR<br>
w: laruscloudservice.net<br>
e: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net">d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net</a><br>
<br>
On 20 July 2017 at 14:12, Mwanguhya Daniel Murungi<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz"><dmurungi@techsupport.co.tz></a> wrote:<br>
> Hello,<br>
><br>
> I came across this various services offered by Larus
cloud services amongst<br>
> them IPv4 sales/trading.<br>
><br>
> <a
href="https://www.laruscloudservice.net/ip-delegation-service"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.laruscloudservice.net/ip-delegation-service</a><br>
><br>
> Below is an excerpt from the site;<br>
><br>
> ----------------------<br>
> [IP DELEGATION SERVICE]<br>
> LARUS has a mega pool of IPv4 addresses to provide
unmatched IPv4 address<br>
> solutions in the world. IP addresses will be
delegated to you directly from<br>
> Larus’s own IP pool. You will use the IP addresses
like yours without<br>
> limitation on geography and usage. This is a flexible
and speedy service to<br>
> meet your business needs.<br>
> ----------------------<br>
><br>
> Honestly, I wonder how much IPv4 space from the
AFRINIC pool is owned by the<br>
> organization Larus Cloud Services?<br>
><br>
> I run a couple of whois queries and found the
following:<br>
><br>
> (Organization) : whois -h whois.afrinic.net 'Larus
Cloud Service'<br>
> ----------------------<br>
><br>
> organisation: ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC<br>
> org-name: Larus cloud service Limited<br>
> org-type: LIR<br>
> country: SC<br>
> address: C/o Abacus (Seychelles) Limited<br>
> address: Mont Fleuri, Mahe<br>
> phone: +359 897641784<br>
> phone: +852 2988 8918<br>
> admin-c: HL6-AFRINIC<br>
> tech-c: DH15-AFRINIC<br>
> mnt-ref: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
> mnt-ref: LCSL1-MNT<br>
> mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
> person: David Hilario<br>
> address: Ul. Zaychar 54 floor 3, Apartment 11<br>
> address: Sofia 1309<br>
> address: Bulgaria<br>
> phone: +359 897641784<br>
> nic-hdl: DH15-AFRINIC<br>
> mnt-by: mine<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
> person: Heng LU<br>
> address: Ebene<br>
> address: MU<br>
> address: Mahe<br>
> address: Seychelles<br>
> phone: +248 4 610 795<br>
> nic-hdl: HL6-AFRINIC<br>
> mnt-by: HLU<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
> ----------------------<br>
><br>
> Below is a list of resources held by Larus;<br>
><br>
> whois -h whois.afrinic.net -T aut-num -T inet6num -T
inetnum -i og<br>
> 'ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC'<br>
><br>
> ----------------------<br>
> inetnum: 196.251.244.0 - 196.251.247.255<br>
> netname: Larus-Cloud-v4<br>
> descr: Larus cloud service Limited<br>
> country: SC<br>
> org: ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC<br>
> admin-c: HL6-AFRINIC<br>
> tech-c: DH15-AFRINIC<br>
> status: ALLOCATED PA<br>
> mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
> mnt-lower: LCSL1-MNT<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
> person: David Hilario<br>
> address: Ul. Zaychar 54 floor 3, Apartment 11<br>
> address: Sofia 1309<br>
> address: Bulgaria<br>
> phone: +359 897641784<br>
> nic-hdl: DH15-AFRINIC<br>
> mnt-by: mine<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
> person: Heng LU<br>
> address: Ebene<br>
> address: MU<br>
> address: Mahe<br>
> address: Seychelles<br>
> phone: +248 4 610 795<br>
> nic-hdl: HL6-AFRINIC<br>
> mnt-by: HLU<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
> ----------------------<br>
><br>
> One of the sub-allocations/assignment from above
Block (<a href="http://196.251.244.0/22"
moz-do-not-send="true">196.251.244.0/22</a>) is<br>
> actually assigned to some Saudi Arabia entity as per
below whois query.<br>
><br>
> whois -h whois.afrinic.net -M '196.251.244.0 -
196.251.247.255'<br>
><br>
> ----------------------<br>
> inetnum: 196.251.244.0 - 196.251.244.255<br>
> netname: SA-ITC-20120518<br>
> descr: Integrated Telecom Co. Ltd<br>
> country: SA<br>
> org: ORG-ITCL1-AFRINIC<br>
> admin-c: IR1052-AFRINIC<br>
> tech-c: IR1052-AFRINIC<br>
> status: ASSIGNED PA<br>
> mnt-by: LCSL1-MNT<br>
> mnt-routes: LCSL1-MNT<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
> ----------------------<br>
><br>
> Larus Cloud Services has no ASN and IPv6<br>
><br>
> whois -h whois.afrinic.net -T aut-num -T inet6num -i
og 'ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC'<br>
><br>
> Furthermore, I noticed that the domains
laruscloudservice.net and<br>
> cloudinnovation.org have the same owner.<br>
><br>
> ----------------------<br>
> Domain Name: laruscloudservice.net<br>
> Registrant Name: Heng Lu<br>
> Registrant Organization: Larus Cloud Service Limited.<br>
> Registrant Street: 903 Dannies HSE<br>
> Registrant Street: 20 LUARD RD<br>
> Registrant City: WAN CHAI<br>
> Registrant State/Province: HONG KONG<br>
> Registrant Postal Code: 9741mh<br>
> Registrant Country: HK<br>
> Registrant Phone: +31.641734323<br>
> Registrant Phone Ext:<br>
> Registrant Fax:<br>
> Registrant Fax Ext:<br>
> Registrant Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:h.lu@outsideheaven.com">h.lu@outsideheaven.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> Domain Name: CLOUDINNOVATION.ORG<br>
> Registrant Name: Lu Heng<br>
> Registrant Organization: AnytimeChinese<br>
> Registrant Street: Esdoornlaan 656<br>
> Registrant City: Groningen<br>
> Registrant State/Province:<br>
> Registrant Postal Code: 9741MH<br>
> Registrant Country: NL<br>
> Registrant Phone: +31.641734323<br>
> Registrant Phone Ext:<br>
> Registrant Fax:<br>
> Registrant Fax Ext:<br>
> Registrant Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:er4tmx4khysehimnwr3s@l.o-w-o.info">er4tmx4khysehimnwr3s@l.o-w-o.info</a><br>
><br>
> ----------------------<br>
><br>
> Cloud innovation<br>
> ================<br>
><br>
> Cloud innovation and Larus Cloud share the same
physical address and<br>
> contacts:<br>
><br>
> whois -h whois.afrinic.net 'CLOUD INNOVATION'<br>
><br>
> ----------------------<br>
> organisation: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br>
> org-name: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br>
> org-type: LIR<br>
> country: SC<br>
> address: C/o Abacus (Seychelles) Limited<br>
> address: Mont Fleuri, Mahe<br>
> address: Seychelles<br>
> address: Mahe<br>
> phone: +248 4 610 795<br>
> phone: +248 4 610 795<br>
> admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> mnt-ref: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
> mnt-ref: CIL1-MNT<br>
> mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
> person: OutsideHeaven Support<br>
> nic-hdl: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> address: Ebene<br>
> address: MU<br>
> address: Mahe<br>
> address: Seychelles<br>
> phone: +248 4 610 795<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
><br>
> person: OutsideHeaven Support<br>
> nic-hdl: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> address: Ebene<br>
> address: MU<br>
> address: Mahe<br>
> address: Seychelles<br>
> phone: +248 4 610 795<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
> ----------------------<br>
><br>
> In fact, Cloud Innovation Ltd has 2x /11 and 2x /12
IPv4 address space<br>
> allocated to them:<br>
><br>
> whois -h whois.afrinic.net -r -T aut-num -T inet6num
-T inetnum -i og<br>
> 'ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC'<br>
><br>
> inetnum: 154.192.0.0 - 154.223.255.255<br>
> netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-II<br>
> descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br>
> country: SC<br>
> org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br>
> admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> status: ALLOCATED PA<br>
> mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
> mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
> inetnum: 154.80.0.0 - 154.95.255.255<br>
> netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I<br>
> descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br>
> country: SC<br>
> org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br>
> admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> status: ALLOCATED PA<br>
> mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
> mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br>
> mnt-domains: CIL1-MNT<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
><br>
> inetnum: 156.224.0.0 - 156.255.255.255<br>
> netname: CloudInnovation-infrastructure<br>
> descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br>
> country: SC<br>
> org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br>
> admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> status: ALLOCATED PA<br>
> mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
> mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
> inetnum: 45.192.0.0 - 45.207.255.255<br>
> netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I<br>
> descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br>
> country: SC<br>
> org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br>
> admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br>
> status: ALLOCATED PA<br>
> mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br>
> mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br>
> mnt-domains: CIL1-MNT<br>
> source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br>
><br>
> Cloud Innovation Ltd just like Larus Cloud Services
doesn't have any ASN and<br>
> IPv6 as an LIR with so much space.<br>
><br>
> whois -h whois.afrinic.net -T aut-num -T inet6num -i
og 'ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC'<br>
><br>
> Could all the above explain the vehement opposition
of the people listed as<br>
> contacts for both Larus Cloud Service and Cloud
innovation [1]?<br>
><br>
> If so much IPv4 space/resources above was allocated
to these LIR's for<br>
> legitimate purposes, it should not be a problem. They
will pass review and<br>
> have ability to use the intra RIR transfer too.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> Daniel<br>
><br>
> [1] Heng Lu and David Hilario<br>
><br>
> On 2017-07-19 22:55, Mike Burns wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Noah,<br>
><br>
> There have been over 5,000 policy-compliant global
IPv4 sales since<br>
> 2010.<br>
><br>
> The concept is that the profit motive will
incentivize those who hold<br>
> unused addresses make them available to sell them to
somebody with a<br>
> need for them. This profit could be an incentive to
renumber more<br>
> efficiently to free up blocks, or to provide some
compensation for the<br>
> expense of that renumbering.<br>
><br>
> Without the profit motive, the only other motive is
charity.<br>
><br>
> Charity has not proven to be effective in bringing
unused addresses<br>
> back to those who need them, but a market has proven
to be quite<br>
> effective. That said, I know that at least two /8
holders voluntarily<br>
> returned their blocks to ARIN years ago.<br>
><br>
> A RIPE study revealed that most address sales are of
older legacy<br>
> blocks that have not appeared in the routing table
for a long time.<br>
><br>
> This is evidence that the lure of profit has
functioned more<br>
> effectively than any prior threat of revocation to
move addresses from<br>
> a low- or no-use environment and into the hands of
those who need them<br>
> to run operational networks.<br>
><br>
> In order to foster this market, other registries have
removed the<br>
> threat of revocation for utilization from their
policies and RSAs in<br>
> order to make it clear to prospective sellers that
the registries will<br>
> act as partners to address-holders seeking to sell,
and not as judges<br>
> or juries with the power of revocation.<br>
><br>
> Yes, it is quite a shock that formerly public
resources are now<br>
> yielding windfalls for address holders, but the
importance of creating<br>
> a market to fulfill the needs of those seeking
address has been judged<br>
> to outweigh the queasiness we may feel when
witnessing the enrichment<br>
> of address-holders who sell their blocks.<br>
><br>
> If the role of AFRINIC is to get blocks into the
hands of those who<br>
> need them, and the free pool is dry, what is the best
way to answer<br>
> that need? One way is to audit, revoke, and recover
unutilized space.<br>
> The other way is to harness the profit motive to lift
unutilized<br>
> addresses to their “highest and best” use.<br>
><br>
> ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE debated these two options and
chose the market<br>
> route. I think 5,000 transfers is evidence that the
correct decision<br>
> was taken.<br>
><br>
> LACNIC has also chosen to allow a market for IPv4
addresses to<br>
> develop, but unlike the other registries, LACNIC has
not removed the<br>
> threat of revocation in its policies and RSA. A
comparison in<br>
> transfer volume between the LACNIC region and the
other regions<br>
> provides possible evidence that retaining the
revocation threat is<br>
> detrimental to the market, as the volume in LACNIC is
very, very low,<br>
> at 10 total transfers to date.<br>
><br>
> And surely you know that people will be buying and
selling IPv4 in<br>
> Africa very soon:<br>
><br>
> <a
href="https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2085-afrinic-board-ratifies-policy-proposal-ipv4-resources-transfer-within-the-afrinic-region"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2085-afrinic-board-ratifies-policy-proposal-ipv4-resources-transfer-within-the-afrinic-region</a><br>
><br>
> I have facilitated transfers to recipients in 60
countries, and soon<br>
> that will include African countries. I am proud to
have helped get<br>
> address blocks into the hands of the buyers in these
countries, and<br>
> there is nothing “so-called” about IP brokerage. It’s
a new<br>
> world, Noah, perhaps you should be the one bracing
yourself.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Mike Burns<br>
><br>
> IPTrading.com<br>
><br>
> FROM: Noah [<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:noah@neo.co.tz</a>]<br>
> SENT: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:22 PM<br>
> TO: Bill Woodcock <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:woody@pch.net"><woody@pch.net></a><br>
> CC: rpd List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br>
> SUBJECT: Re: [rpd] Last Call for
"AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 -<br>
><br>
> Internet Number Resources Review by AFRINIC"<br>
><br>
> On Jun 26, 2017, at 8:37 PM, Lu Heng
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com"><h.lu@anytimechinese.com></a><br>
><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> This policy is in direct conflict with transfer
policy, if someone<br>
><br>
> wants to sell their address space, they surely not
commit to use it<br>
> with the original purpose, should AFRINIC instead of
allowing them<br>
> to transfer the space, but reclaim them and
redistribute them for<br>
> "better use"? If that is the case, the transfer
policy will have no<br>
> use because of that.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Woow<br>
><br>
> So your worry is that someone will not be in a
position to "sell" idle<br>
> IP address space through the transfer policy?<br>
><br>
> I always thought the fundamental premise was for
INR's to be allocated<br>
> for use that can promote internet expansion rather
than profit from<br>
> INR's.<br>
><br>
> On 12 Jul 2017 9:14 a.m., "Bill Woodcock"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:woody@pch.net"><woody@pch.net></a> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I would just like to point out that the AfriNIC
community does not<br>
> exist to serve the financial interests of those who
wish to sell<br>
> addresses, rather than use them.<br>
><br>
><br>
> + Bill<br>
><br>
> And whoever in their wildest thoughts think the
community shall seat<br>
> back and see them trade IPv4 for any other reason
beyond using them to<br>
> build infracture and extend internet related services
in AFRICA should<br>
> brace themselves for now.<br>
><br>
> The AfriNIC community is the community of people who
need IP<br>
> addresses, in order to route them and give people
access to the<br>
> Internet.<br>
><br>
><br>
> +1 Bill<br>
><br>
> The AfriNIC policy process exists to serve those who
wish to _use_<br>
> IP addresses, not those who wish to profit from them
at the expense<br>
> of the community.<br>
><br>
><br>
> +1 Bill<br>
><br>
> Especially those who wish to profit from INR's
especially the so<br>
> called IPv4 brokers. There is AFRINIC for goodness
sake.<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
><br>
> Noah<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
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href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
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<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ftth.posix.co.za">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>
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