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<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">Hello,<br /><br />I came across this various services offered by Larus cloud services amongst them IPv4 sales/trading. <br /><br />https://www.laruscloudservice.net/ip-delegation-service<br /><br />Below is an excerpt from the site;<br /><br />----------------------<br />[IP DELEGATION SERVICE]<br />LARUS has a mega pool of IPv4 addresses to provide unmatched IPv4 address solutions in the world. IP addresses will be delegated to you directly from Larus’s own IP pool. You will use the IP addresses like yours without limitation on geography and usage. This is a flexible and speedy service to meet your business needs.<br />----------------------<br /><br />Honestly, I wonder how much IPv4 space from the AFRINIC pool is owned by the organization Larus Cloud Services? <br /><br />I run a couple of whois queries and found the following:<br /><br />(Organization) : whois -h whois.afrinic.net 'Larus Cloud Service'<br />----------------------<br /><br />organisation: ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC<br />org-name: Larus cloud service Limited<br />org-type: LIR<br />country: SC<br />address: C/o Abacus (Seychelles) Limited<br />address: Mont Fleuri, Mahe<br />phone: +359 897641784<br />phone: +852 2988 8918<br />admin-c: HL6-AFRINIC<br />tech-c: DH15-AFRINIC<br />mnt-ref: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br />mnt-ref: LCSL1-MNT<br />mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br />person: David Hilario<br />address: Ul. Zaychar 54 floor 3, Apartment 11<br />address: Sofia 1309<br />address: Bulgaria<br />phone: +359 897641784<br />nic-hdl: DH15-AFRINIC<br />mnt-by: mine<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br />person: Heng LU<br />address: Ebene<br />address: MU<br />address: Mahe<br />address: Seychelles<br />phone: +248 4 610 795<br />nic-hdl: HL6-AFRINIC<br />mnt-by: HLU<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br />----------------------<br /><br />Below is a list of resources held by Larus;<br /><br />whois -h whois.afrinic.net -T aut-num -T inet6num -T inetnum -i og 'ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC'<br /><br />----------------------<br />inetnum: 196.251.244.0 - 196.251.247.255<br />netname: Larus-Cloud-v4<br />descr: Larus cloud service Limited<br />country: SC<br />org: ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC<br />admin-c: HL6-AFRINIC<br />tech-c: DH15-AFRINIC<br />status: ALLOCATED PA<br />mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br />mnt-lower: LCSL1-MNT<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br />person: David Hilario<br />address: Ul. Zaychar 54 floor 3, Apartment 11<br />address: Sofia 1309<br />address: Bulgaria<br />phone: +359 897641784<br />nic-hdl: DH15-AFRINIC<br />mnt-by: mine<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br />person: Heng LU<br />address: Ebene<br />address: MU<br />address: Mahe<br />address: Seychelles<br />phone: +248 4 610 795<br />nic-hdl: HL6-AFRINIC<br />mnt-by: HLU<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br />----------------------<br /><br />One of the sub-allocations/assignment from above Block (196.251.244.0/22) is actually assigned to some Saudi Arabia entity as per below whois query.<br /><br />whois -h whois.afrinic.net -M '196.251.244.0 - 196.251.247.255'<br /><br />----------------------<br />inetnum: 196.251.244.0 - 196.251.244.255<br />netname: SA-ITC-20120518<br />descr: Integrated Telecom Co. Ltd<br />country: SA<br />org: ORG-ITCL1-AFRINIC<br />admin-c: IR1052-AFRINIC<br />tech-c: IR1052-AFRINIC<br />status: ASSIGNED PA<br />mnt-by: LCSL1-MNT<br />mnt-routes: LCSL1-MNT<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br />----------------------<br /><br />Larus Cloud Services has no ASN and IPv6<br /><br />whois -h whois.afrinic.net -T aut-num -T inet6num -i og 'ORG-LCSL1-AFRINIC'<br /><br />Furthermore, I noticed that the domains laruscloudservice.net and cloudinnovation.org have the same owner.<br /><br />----------------------<br />Domain Name: laruscloudservice.net<br />Registrant Name: Heng Lu<br />Registrant Organization: Larus Cloud Service Limited.<br />Registrant Street: 903 Dannies HSE<br />Registrant Street: 20 LUARD RD<br />Registrant City: WAN CHAI<br />Registrant State/Province: HONG KONG<br />Registrant Postal Code: 9741mh<br />Registrant Country: HK<br />Registrant Phone: +31.641734323<br />Registrant Phone Ext:<br />Registrant Fax:<br />Registrant Fax Ext:<br />Registrant Email: h.lu@outsideheaven.com<br /><br /><br />Domain Name: CLOUDINNOVATION.ORG<br />Registrant Name: Lu Heng<br />Registrant Organization: AnytimeChinese<br />Registrant Street: Esdoornlaan 656<br />Registrant City: Groningen<br />Registrant State/Province:<br />Registrant Postal Code: 9741MH<br />Registrant Country: NL<br />Registrant Phone: +31.641734323<br />Registrant Phone Ext:<br />Registrant Fax:<br />Registrant Fax Ext:<br />Registrant Email: er4tmx4khysehimnwr3s@l.o-w-o.info<br /><br />----------------------<br /><br />Cloud innovation<br />================<br /><br />Cloud innovation and Larus Cloud share the same physical address and contacts: <br /><br />whois -h whois.afrinic.net 'CLOUD INNOVATION'<br /><br />----------------------<br />organisation: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br />org-name: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br />org-type: LIR<br />country: SC<br />address: C/o Abacus (Seychelles) Limited<br />address: Mont Fleuri, Mahe<br />address: Seychelles<br />address: Mahe<br />phone: +248 4 610 795<br />phone: +248 4 610 795<br />admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br />tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br />mnt-ref: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br />mnt-ref: CIL1-MNT<br />mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br />person: OutsideHeaven Support<br />nic-hdl: OS9-AFRINIC<br />address: Ebene<br />address: MU<br />address: Mahe<br />address: Seychelles<br />phone: +248 4 610 795<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br /><br />person: OutsideHeaven Support<br />nic-hdl: OS9-AFRINIC<br />address: Ebene<br />address: MU<br />address: Mahe<br />address: Seychelles<br />phone: +248 4 610 795<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br />----------------------<br /><br />In fact, Cloud Innovation Ltd has 2x /11 and 2x /12 IPv4 address space allocated to them: <br /><br />whois -h whois.afrinic.net -r -T aut-num -T inet6num -T inetnum -i og 'ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC'<br /><br />inetnum: 154.192.0.0 - 154.223.255.255<br />netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-II<br />descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br />country: SC<br />org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br />admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br />tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br />status: ALLOCATED PA<br />mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br />mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br />inetnum: 154.80.0.0 - 154.95.255.255<br />netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I<br />descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br />country: SC<br />org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br />admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br />tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br />status: ALLOCATED PA<br />mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br />mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br />mnt-domains: CIL1-MNT<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br /><br />inetnum: 156.224.0.0 - 156.255.255.255<br />netname: CloudInnovation-infrastructure<br />descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br />country: SC<br />org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br />admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br />tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br />status: ALLOCATED PA<br />mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br />mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br />inetnum: 45.192.0.0 - 45.207.255.255<br />netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I<br />descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd<br />country: SC<br />org: ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC<br />admin-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br />tech-c: OS9-AFRINIC<br />status: ALLOCATED PA<br />mnt-by: AFRINIC-HM-MNT<br />mnt-lower: CIL1-MNT<br />mnt-domains: CIL1-MNT<br />source: AFRINIC # Filtered<br /><br />Cloud Innovation Ltd just like Larus Cloud Services doesn't have any ASN and IPv6 as an LIR with so much space.<br /><br />whois -h whois.afrinic.net -T aut-num -T inet6num -i og 'ORG-CIL1-AFRINIC'<br /><br />Could all the above explain the vehement opposition of the people listed as contacts for both Larus Cloud Service and Cloud innovation [1]?<br /><br />If so much IPv4 space/resources above was allocated to these LIR's for legitimate purposes, it should not be a problem. They will pass review and have ability to use the intra RIR transfer too. <br /><br />Regards,<br />Daniel<br /><br />[1] Heng Lu and David Hilario</div>
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<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">On 2017-07-19 22:55, Mike Burns wrote:
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">Hi Noah,<br /> <br /> There have been over 5,000 policy-compliant global IPv4 sales since<br /> 2010.<br /> <br /> The concept is that the profit motive will incentivize those who hold<br /> unused addresses make them available to sell them to somebody with a<br /> need for them. This profit could be an incentive to renumber more<br /> efficiently to free up blocks, or to provide some compensation for the<br /> expense of that renumbering.<br /> <br /> Without the profit motive, the only other motive is charity.<br /> <br /> Charity has not proven to be effective in bringing unused addresses<br /> back to those who need them, but a market has proven to be quite<br /> effective. That said, I know that at least two /8 holders voluntarily<br /> returned their blocks to ARIN years ago.<br /> <br /> A RIPE study revealed that most address sales are of older legacy<br /> blocks that have not appeared in the routing table for a long time.<br /> <br /> This is evidence that the lure of profit has functioned more<br /> effectively than any prior threat of revocation to move addresses from<br /> a low- or no-use environment and into the hands of those who need them<br /> to run operational networks.<br /> <br /> In order to foster this market, other registries have removed the<br /> threat of revocation for utilization from their policies and RSAs in<br /> order to make it clear to prospective sellers that the registries will<br /> act as partners to address-holders seeking to sell, and not as judges<br /> or juries with the power of revocation.<br /> <br /> Yes, it is quite a shock that formerly public resources are now<br /> yielding windfalls for address holders, but the importance of creating<br /> a market to fulfill the needs of those seeking address has been judged<br /> to outweigh the queasiness we may feel when witnessing the enrichment<br /> of address-holders who sell their blocks.<br /> <br /> If the role of AFRINIC is to get blocks into the hands of those who<br /> need them, and the free pool is dry, what is the best way to answer<br /> that need? One way is to audit, revoke, and recover unutilized space. <br /> The other way is to harness the profit motive to lift unutilized<br /> addresses to their “highest and best” use.<br /> <br /> ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE debated these two options and chose the market<br /> route. I think 5,000 transfers is evidence that the correct decision<br /> was taken. <br /> <br /> LACNIC has also chosen to allow a market for IPv4 addresses to<br /> develop, but unlike the other registries, LACNIC has not removed the<br /> threat of revocation in its policies and RSA. A comparison in<br /> transfer volume between the LACNIC region and the other regions<br /> provides possible evidence that retaining the revocation threat is<br /> detrimental to the market, as the volume in LACNIC is very, very low,<br /> at 10 total transfers to date.<br /> <br /> And surely you know that people will be buying and selling IPv4 in<br /> Africa very soon:<br /> <br /> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2085-afrinic-board-ratifies-policy-proposal-ipv4-resources-transfer-within-the-afrinic-region" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2085-afrinic-board-ratifies-policy-proposal-ipv4-resources-transfer-within-the-afrinic-region</a><br /> <br /> I have facilitated transfers to recipients in 60 countries, and soon<br /> that will include African countries. I am proud to have helped get<br /> address blocks into the hands of the buyers in these countries, and<br /> there is nothing “so-called” about IP brokerage. It’s a new<br /> world, Noah, perhaps you should be the one bracing yourself.<br /> <br /> Regards,<br /> <br /> Mike Burns<br /> <br /> IPTrading.com<br /> <br /> FROM: Noah [mailto:<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>] <br /> SENT: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:22 PM<br /> TO: Bill Woodcock <<a href="mailto:woody@pch.net">woody@pch.net</a>><br /> CC: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br /> SUBJECT: Re: [rpd] Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 -<br /> Internet Number Resources Review by AFRINIC"<br /> <br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">On Jun 26, 2017, at 8:37 PM, Lu Heng <<a href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com">h.lu@anytimechinese.com</a>></blockquote>
wrote:
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">This policy is in direct conflict with transfer policy, if someone</blockquote>
wants to sell their address space, they surely not commit to use it<br /> with the original purpose, should AFRINIC instead of allowing them<br /> to transfer the space, but reclaim them and redistribute them for<br /> "better use"? If that is the case, the transfer policy will have no<br /> use because of that.</blockquote>
<br /> Woow<br /> <br /> So your worry is that someone will not be in a position to "sell" idle<br /> IP address space through the transfer policy?<br /> <br /> I always thought the fundamental premise was for INR's to be allocated<br /> for use that can promote internet expansion rather than profit from<br /> INR's.<br /> <br /> On 12 Jul 2017 9:14 a.m., "Bill Woodcock" <<a href="mailto:woody@pch.net">woody@pch.net</a>> wrote:<br /> <br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">I would just like to point out that the AfriNIC community does not<br /> exist to serve the financial interests of those who wish to sell<br /> addresses, rather than use them.</blockquote>
<br /> + Bill <br /> <br /> And whoever in their wildest thoughts think the community shall seat<br /> back and see them trade IPv4 for any other reason beyond using them to<br /> build infracture and extend internet related services in AFRICA should<br /> brace themselves for now.<br /> <br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">The AfriNIC community is the community of people who need IP<br /> addresses, in order to route them and give people access to the<br /> Internet.</blockquote>
<br /> +1 Bill<br /> <br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">The AfriNIC policy process exists to serve those who wish to _use_<br /> IP addresses, not those who wish to profit from them at the expense<br /> of the community.</blockquote>
<br /> +1 Bill<br /> <br /> Especially those who wish to profit from INR's especially the so<br /> called IPv4 brokers. There is AFRINIC for goodness sake.<br /> <br /> Cheers,<br /> <br /> Noah<br /> _______________________________________________<br /> RPD mailing list<br /> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br /> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></blockquote>
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