<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Apologies for top-posting, but there was little way to parse this situation of people talking past each other.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Having observed for a while, I think we can agree that there is some ambiguity in the drafting.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I also think we can accept that there needs to be some limitation on the time in which appeals can be lodged or issues once thought resolved could come back to haunt us. Two weeks seems reasonable to me.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think that the ambiguity is that the term “decision” could be EITHER the action of the chair that causes the disagreement, OR the circumstance where the disagreement cannot be resolved.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So let me suggest a middle ground:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">1) we accept we need some better wording to resolve the ambiguity; and</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">2) we accept (for now at least) that the inability to resolve the disagreement is the “decision” that triggers the clock. That inability to be evidenced by a statement from either the disagreeing (or is that disagreeable?) person or the PDWG Chair/s (with a copy to the other) indicating that the disagreement cannot be resolved. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">3) the Board comes out with a clarifying statement indicating that it regards the inability to resolve the disagreement as the “decision” that triggers the clock</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">May not be the most elegant solution, but could work as an interim resolution while we look at amending the PDP?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Comments most welcome. Disagreement welcomed if respectful.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Mike</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> <br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 13 Jul 2017, at 14:15, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">Sunday, not at all.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">The PDP states in section 3.5 that the appeal shall be lodged within 2 weeks of *<b class="">THE DECISION THAT IS DISAGREED WITH</b>* being made – not the end of the negotiation with the PDP co-chairs.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">So again – what you are saying is out of line with the process.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">I quote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 3.75pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: rgb(238, 238, 238);"><b class=""><i class=""><u class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class="">A person who disagrees with the actions taken by the Chair(s)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></u></i></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class="">shall discuss the matter with the PDWG Chair(s) or with the PDWG. If the disagreement cannot be resolved in this way, the person may file an appeal with an Appeal Committee appointed by the AFRINIC Board of Directors. An appeal can only be filed if it is supported by three (3) persons from the Working Group who have participated in the discussions.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 3.75pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: rgb(238, 238, 238);"><b class=""><i class=""><u class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class="">The appeal must be submitted within two weeks of the public knowledge of the decision</span></u></i></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class="">. The Appeal Committee shall issue a report on its review of the complaint to the Working Group. The Appeal Committee may direct that the Chair(s) decision be annulled if the Policy Development Process has not been followed.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">This text does NOT refer to when it is decided that the disagreement cannot be resolved through negotiation – it clearly states the appeal must be submitted within two weeks of the public knowledge of the DECISION – and since there is no DECISION formally taken by any party as to if negotiations have failed – the only DECISION is the one being appealed.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">So – actually – there is a time limit on this – because if the two week period passes and the negotiations with the co-chairs are still ongoing – the ability to seek further redress is eliminated.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">So please – read these things.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">Furthermore – the CPM does NOT specify that there must be a week long period of negotiations before filing an appeal – it says the appeal can be lodged at ANY point in those two weeks – if the party feels that the negotiations have failed – that can be within 10 minutes.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">Sorry – your proposal does not meet the requirements of the CPM – and I am at an absolute loss to understand why the board is so resistant to appointing a standing committee of appeal, other than “we don’t want to do it”<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></body></html>