<div dir="auto">Dear all,<div dir="auto">In the same way as Patrick mention it, I fully agree with his argumentation. I do also support this review policy proposal.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 Jul 2017 11:01 a.m., <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 - Internet<br>
Number Resources Review by AFRINIC" (Patrick Lufundisu)<br>
2. Re: Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 - Internet<br>
Number Resources Review by AFRINIC" (Fiona Asonga)<br>
3. Re: Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 - Internet<br>
Number Resources Review by AFRINIC" (Mike Silber)<br>
4. Re: Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 - Internet<br>
Number Resources Review by AFRINIC" (Kris Seeburn)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 10:14:38 +0100<br>
From: Patrick Lufundisu <<a href="mailto:patrickluf@gmail.com">patrickluf@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Bope Domilongo Christian <<a href="mailto:christianbope@gmail.com">christianbope@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 -<br>
Internet Number Resources Review by AFRINIC"<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CADb3FWeoQxdroTG05Fu_+7yCsN=<wbr>AUWDR1f45u=<a href="mailto:stwf1iarvNhg@mail.gmail.com">stwf1iarvNhg@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hello Eveyone,<br>
<br>
Bieng at Nairobi meeting Kenya AIS 2017 and followed the discussion on rpd<br>
list, this is a right moment for AfriNIC to have this review policy.<br>
Heading to IPv4 exhaustion this is review policy is more than important<br>
<br>
Therefore, i add my voice to the majority of this community in support of<br>
this review Policy.<br>
<br>
On 12 July 2017 at 10:01, Bope Domilongo Christian <<a href="mailto:christianbope@gmail.com">christianbope@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> [Speaking on my own capacity]<br>
><br>
> I have been in support of this review policy proposal since its inception<br>
> and have followed carefully the progression.<br>
> My support counted in those who made the policy proposal enter the last<br>
> call.<br>
><br>
> I expect its adoption as this region really needs such a POLICY<br>
> specifically in post IPV4 transition and for the sake of transparency and<br>
> accountability of the management of public resources.<br>
><br>
> With Best Regards,<br>
> Christian D. Bope<br>
><br>
> On 12 July 2017 at 16:30, Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 12 Jul 2017 9:47 a.m., "Bill Woodcock" <<a href="mailto:woody@pch.net">woody@pch.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> 18 Against:<br>
>> "<a href="mailto:chenghn@chinaccsi.com">chenghn@chinaccsi.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:chenghn@chinaccsi.com">chenghn@chinaccsi.com</a>><br>
>> Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a>><br>
>> Bastein Li <<a href="mailto:bastienlee@qq.com">bastienlee@qq.com</a>><br>
>> Christopher Mwangi <<a href="mailto:christopher.mwangi@liquidtelecom.com">christopher.mwangi@<wbr>liquidtelecom.com</a>><br>
>> David Hilario <<a href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net">d.hilario@laruscloudservice.<wbr>net</a>><br>
>> Derrick Harrison <<a href="mailto:derrick.harrison@sonictelecoms.co.za">derrick.harrison@<wbr>sonictelecoms.co.za</a>><br>
>> Douglas Onyango <<a href="mailto:ondouglas@gmail.com">ondouglas@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Kris Seeburn <<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Lu Heng <<a href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com">h.lu@anytimechinese.com</a>><br>
>> Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
>> Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br>
>> McTim <<a href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com">dogwallah@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Nishal Goburdhan <<a href="mailto:nishal@controlfreak.co.za">nishal@controlfreak.co.za</a>><br>
>> Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>><br>
>> S Moonesamy <<a href="mailto:sm%2Bafrinic@elandsys.com">sm+afrinic@elandsys.com</a>><br>
>> Saul Stein <<a href="mailto:saul@enetworks.co.za">saul@enetworks.co.za</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Hi Bill<br>
>><br>
>> on the contrary, I actually support the policy just like other folks<br>
>> which is why it reached the last call. This policy would enable AFRINIC<br>
>> just like ARIN, RIPE NCC and other RIR to effect compliance.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> So, the next question might be whether this is a winner-take-all vote, or<br>
>> an assessment of whether a clear consensus exists.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> We continue to trust the co-chairs who have guided us to this stage.<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers<br>
>> Noah<br>
>><br>
>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>> RPD mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Pat<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 12:29:41 +0300 (EAT)<br>
From: Fiona Asonga <<a href="mailto:tespok@tespok.co.ke">tespok@tespok.co.ke</a>><br>
To: David Hilario <<a href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net">d.hilario@laruscloudservice.<wbr>net</a>><br>
Cc: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 -<br>
Internet Number Resources Review by AFRINIC"<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:2120074547.940866.1499851781276.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke">2120074547.940866.<wbr>1499851781276.JavaMail.zimbra@<wbr>tespok.co.ke</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br>
<br>
Hallo All<br>
<br>
I believe the challenge here is for the authors to demonstrate how they have accommodated the feedback received. If AFRINIC legal have raise issues that have not been addressed then clearly we are not solving anything. I recall the CEO asked the authors to work with Askok and agree on how to appropriately make amendments. It would be helpful if the issues that are raised are addressed since what is coming forth clearly is that our Review proposal is a resource de-registration proposal unlike the review proposals in the other RIR regions. In the interest of clarity it would help if the authors share a tabulation of comments and remedies provided for each.<br>
<br>
Kind regards<br>
<br>
Fiona<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "David Hilario" <<a href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net">d.hilario@laruscloudservice.<wbr>net</a>><br>
To: "Noah" <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>><br>
Cc: "rpd List" <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 12:06:37 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 - Internet Number Resources Review by AFRINIC"<br>
<br>
On 12 July 2017 at 11:30, Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 12 Jul 2017 9:47 a.m., "Bill Woodcock" <<a href="mailto:woody@pch.net">woody@pch.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> 18 Against:<br>
> "<a href="mailto:chenghn@chinaccsi.com">chenghn@chinaccsi.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:chenghn@chinaccsi.com">chenghn@chinaccsi.com</a>><br>
> Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a>><br>
> Bastein Li <<a href="mailto:bastienlee@qq.com">bastienlee@qq.com</a>><br>
> Christopher Mwangi <<a href="mailto:christopher.mwangi@liquidtelecom.com">christopher.mwangi@<wbr>liquidtelecom.com</a>><br>
> David Hilario <<a href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net">d.hilario@laruscloudservice.<wbr>net</a>><br>
> Derrick Harrison <<a href="mailto:derrick.harrison@sonictelecoms.co.za">derrick.harrison@<wbr>sonictelecoms.co.za</a>><br>
> Douglas Onyango <<a href="mailto:ondouglas@gmail.com">ondouglas@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Kris Seeburn <<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Lu Heng <<a href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com">h.lu@anytimechinese.com</a>><br>
> Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
> Mark Tinka <<a href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu">mark.tinka@seacom.mu</a>><br>
> McTim <<a href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com">dogwallah@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Nishal Goburdhan <<a href="mailto:nishal@controlfreak.co.za">nishal@controlfreak.co.za</a>><br>
> Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>><br>
> S Moonesamy <<a href="mailto:sm%2Bafrinic@elandsys.com">sm+afrinic@elandsys.com</a>><br>
> Saul Stein <<a href="mailto:saul@enetworks.co.za">saul@enetworks.co.za</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hi Bill<br>
><br>
> on the contrary, I actually support the policy just like other folks which<br>
> is why it reached the last call. This policy would enable AFRINIC just like<br>
> ARIN, RIPE NCC and other RIR to effect compliance.<br>
><br>
<br>
Noah,<br>
<br>
This simply isn't true.<br>
<br>
ARIN and RIPE NCC review of their members are:<br>
A: non intrusive, they are not re-evaluating their allocations.<br>
B: not targeted at de-registration as a goal.<br>
<br>
Claiming that this is to align with the other RIR is misleading<br>
AFRINIC community as a whole, and when repeated so many times highly<br>
damaging to the notion of how the other RIR functions.<br>
<br>
There are fundamental difference between ARIN and RIPE NCC and their<br>
communities, but both sides are very keen on not having active LIR<br>
having their resources being re-evaluated for better use after they<br>
have been issued years ago.<br>
<br>
The so called de-registration page is about "fraud" where falsified<br>
documents were provided, usually, registration papers in take over of<br>
resources.<br>
<br>
RIR representatives were even asked about that at the last meeting in<br>
Mauritius, Leslie the ARIN Registration services manager confirmed,<br>
de-registration only happens in frauds.<br>
<br>
RIPE NCC never de-registers resources from an active LIR either,<br>
<br>
Repeating the same misinformation will not make the policies and<br>
procedures from the other RIR change.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> So, the next question might be whether this is a winner-take-all vote, or an<br>
> assessment of whether a clear consensus exists.<br>
><br>
><br>
> We continue to trust the co-chairs who have guided us to this stage.<br>
><br>
> Cheers<br>
> Noah<br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
><br>
David Hilario<br>
<br>
IP Manager<br>
<br>
Larus Cloud Service Limited<br>
<br>
p: <a href="tel:%2B852%2029888918" value="+85229888918">+852 29888918</a> m: <a href="tel:%2B359%2089%20764%201784" value="+359897641784">+359 89 764 1784</a><br>
f: <a href="tel:%2B852%2029888068" value="+85229888068">+852 29888068</a><br>
a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR<br>
w: <a href="http://laruscloudservice.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">laruscloudservice.net</a><br>
e: <a href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net">d.hilario@laruscloudservice.<wbr>net</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:56:01 +0200<br>
From: Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 -<br>
Internet Number Resources Review by AFRINIC"<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:E0968FEB-D1E3-4D69-B82C-91B689C04A69@gmail.com">E0968FEB-D1E3-4D69-B82C-<wbr>91B689C04A69@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br>
<br>
Fiona +1<br>
<br>
Let me state categorically, I have no objection to the ?principle? of a review policy.<br>
<br>
My objection is to the proposed implementation of the review that creates the potential for abuse for ulterior motives.<br>
<br>
I also object to the notion of de-registration of resources except in the case of fraud.<br>
<br>
There seem to be too many views of what problem this policy is meant to solve (and I hear different views from different supporters and even sometimes the same supporters depending on the occasion).<br>
<br>
I would really encourage the authors to go back and look at the purpose in the light of objections raised. I would also encourage them to drop the provisions that could be misused. As mentioned by many others - precedents from other RIRs are very instructive in this regard.<br>
<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
> On 12 Jul 2017, at 11:29, Fiona Asonga <<a href="mailto:tespok@tespok.co.ke">tespok@tespok.co.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hallo All<br>
><br>
> I believe the challenge here is for the authors to demonstrate how they have accommodated the feedback received. If AFRINIC legal have raise issues that have not been addressed then clearly we are not solving anything. I recall the CEO asked the authors to work with Askok and agree on how to appropriately make amendments. It would be helpful if the issues that are raised are addressed since what is coming forth clearly is that our Review proposal is a resource de-registration proposal unlike the review proposals in the other RIR regions. In the interest of clarity it would help if the authors share a tabulation of comments and remedies provided for each.<br>
><br>
> Kind regards<br>
><br>
> Fiona<br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:00:24 +0400<br>
From: Kris Seeburn <<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 -<br>
Internet Number Resources Review by AFRINIC"<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4899CDC7-7937-4B0F-8634-D61D33A6AF63@gmail.com">4899CDC7-7937-4B0F-8634-<wbr>D61D33A6AF63@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
+1 mike<br>
<br>
> On Jul 12, 2017, at 1:56 PM, Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Fiona +1<br>
><br>
> Let me state categorically, I have no objection to the ?principle? of a review policy.<br>
><br>
> My objection is to the proposed implementation of the review that creates the potential for abuse for ulterior motives.<br>
><br>
> I also object to the notion of de-registration of resources except in the case of fraud.<br>
><br>
> There seem to be too many views of what problem this policy is meant to solve (and I hear different views from different supporters and even sometimes the same supporters depending on the occasion).<br>
><br>
> I would really encourage the authors to go back and look at the purpose in the light of objections raised. I would also encourage them to drop the provisions that could be misused. As mentioned by many others - precedents from other RIRs are very instructive in this regard.<br>
><br>
> Mike<br>
><br>
>> On 12 Jul 2017, at 11:29, Fiona Asonga <<a href="mailto:tespok@tespok.co.ke">tespok@tespok.co.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hallo All<br>
>><br>
>> I believe the challenge here is for the authors to demonstrate how they have accommodated the feedback received. If AFRINIC legal have raise issues that have not been addressed then clearly we are not solving anything. I recall the CEO asked the authors to work with Askok and agree on how to appropriately make amendments. It would be helpful if the issues that are raised are addressed since what is coming forth clearly is that our Review proposal is a resource de-registration proposal unlike the review proposals in the other RIR regions. In the interest of clarity it would help if the authors share a tabulation of comments and remedies provided for each.<br>
>><br>
>> Kind regards<br>
>><br>
>> Fiona<br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
<br>
Kris Seeburn<br>
<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/</a> <<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/<wbr>kseeburn/</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div></div>