<div dir="ltr">This is an interesting conversation here.<br><br><div style="direction:ltr">Why? Because if I think things through and
decide on the last day of that period that I have intent to file - and
then inform the board - the committee will not be constituted in time
for the appeal to reach them in the stipulated
time period - where as had I sent directly to a standing committee it
would have.<br><br></div><div>I do agree with Andrew here.<br></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">So - is the board prepared to commit to
appointing a committee within 6 hours notice? Anything else would
prejudice the rights as stipulated in the CPM<br><br></div><div>I do agree with this as well. Apologize again if i missed something, can anyone please explain to me why the Board cannot nominate a standing committee? A committee whith whom community members would file their complaints directly, bearing in mind that the Board might not (in some circumstances) have enough time to do it, should the request to form the committee comes in close to the expiration of the 2 weeks time? If it is because that's what the CPM say, can't we change them?<br><br></div><div>Alan said the following later on: <br>No, the policy process does not say that the Board must appoint the
committee long in advance to be on standby in case there’s an appeal.
The policy process is silent about when the committee gets appointed.<br><br>Maybe it is the time to change it now that someone raised the issue and presented some good motivations about it? How can we go about this?<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>------------------------<br>*<a href="http://about.me/ArseneTungali" target="_blank"><b>Arsène Tungali</b></a>*<br></div>Co-Founder & Executive Director, <span><i><a href="http://www.rudiinternational.org" target="_blank">Rudi international</a></i>,</span><br>CEO,<i> <a href="http://www.smart-serv.info" target="_blank">Smart Services Sarl</a></i>, <i><a href="http://www.mabingwa-forum.com" target="_blank">Mabingwa Forum</a></i> <br>Tel: +243 993810967<i><br></i></div><div>GPG: 523644A0<i><br></i></div><div><u>Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo</u><i><br><br></i></div><div><a href="http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html" target="_blank">2015 Mandela Washington Felllow</a> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF <a href="http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors" target="_blank">Brazil</a> & <a href="http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors" target="_blank">Mexico</a>) <font face="monospace,monospace">- <a href="http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/" target="_blank">AFRISIG 2016</a> - </font><a href="http://tungali.blogspot.com" target="_blank">Blogger</a> - ICANN Fellow (<a href="https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2014-07-18-en" target="_blank">Los Angeles</a> & <a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/marrakech55-attendees-2016-03-14-en" target="_blank">Marrakech</a>).<i> </i>AFRINIC Fellow<i> </i>(<a href="http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners" target="_blank">Mauritius</a>)<i> - </i><a href="http://www.igfsa.org/" target="_blank">IGFSA Member</a> - Internet Governance - Internet Freedom.<i> </i><br><br>Check the <i>2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC</i> report (<a href="http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234" target="_blank">English</a>) and (<a href="http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242" target="_blank">French</a>)<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-07-12 9:45 GMT+02:00 Andrew Alston <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div id="m_-6442632996413944392compose-container" style="direction:ltr">
<span><span></span></span>
<div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Oh and sorry - another point - the appeal process says I have to file with the committee within 2 weeks of the alleged incident - if I have to submit via the board first - this changes the stipulated time frames and makes them much
shorter.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Why? Because if I think things through and decide on the last day of that period that I have intent to file - and then inform the board - the committee will not be constituted in time for the appeal to reach them in the stipulated
time period - where as had I sent directly to a standing committee it would have.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">So - is the board prepared to commit to appointing a committee within 6 hours notice? Anything else would prejudice the rights as stipulated in the CPM</div><span class="">
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Andrew </div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div id="m_-6442632996413944392divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 12, 2017 10:37:54 AM<div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Alan Barrett; AfriNIC RPD MList.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] [Board-Discuss] RPD appeal committee</div></div></font>
<div> </div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<div>
<div id="m_-6442632996413944392compose-container" style="direction:ltr">
<span><span></span></span>
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<div style="direction:ltr">Alan - further to this - </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">You said if I want it - ask for it - sorry to say this but that is simply not valid - the community asked for it - when they approved the current PDP - I should not have to ask for it - it should be there - and I take partial responsibility
as an ex board member for missing this and not insisting on it during my time on the board - it was an oversight and I apologize to the community for that</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Andrew</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div id="m_-6442632996413944392divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 12, 2017 10:28:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alan Barrett; AfriNIC RPD MList.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] [Board-Discuss] RPD appeal committee</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="m_-6442632996413944392compose-container" style="direction:ltr">
<span><span></span></span>
<div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Alan - it is required - the CPM (not the bylaws) require it as the community agreed to that CPM.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">The problem you have with complaints being diverted via the board is as follows:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">A.) it is well established practice - that I fully support - that board members may partake in their personal capacity in PDP meetings and the PDP process</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">B.) it is established fact that at points staff - including yourself - have expressed opinions on certain aspects (see Mauritius) - again - I fully support that - but it creates conflict</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">C.) The CPM says appeals must be filed within 2 weeks - I believe the intention on this is to ensure that information is clear and retained - and the delays by having the board constitute adhoc committees could have a detrimental
affect on the process</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">D.) the process says nothing about submitting the complaint to anyone other than the committee - that cannot be done without the committee existing </div>
<div style="direction:ltr">E.) do I believe there is a need for such a committee? 100% - if such a committee existed and I had known it - I would have already appealed the decision to pass the review policy to last call - on substantial grounds.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">So yes - that committee is mandated by the CPM - yes it is necessary - yes I want the ability as promised in the CPM to file my appeals directly with the committee - yes I do not believe the board should have any part in said committee
outside of appointing it - and certainly should not appoint themselves as gateway to the committee when the CPM in no way caters for such a scenario</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Again I ask - if I am told to file with the appeal committee - how do I do that without it existing - am I forced to push said appeal through the board - in which case please show me the sections of the CPM and the bylaws that allow
the board to insert itself into this process</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Andrew </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div id="m_-6442632996413944392divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Alan Barrett <<a href="mailto:alan.barrett@afrinic.net" target="_blank">alan.barrett@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 12, 2017 10:10:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> AfriNIC RPD MList.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] [Board-Discuss] RPD appeal committee</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><br>
> On 12 Jul 2017, at 10:50, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Sorry Alan - but this is in direct conflict with what the CPM says, I quote:<br>
> <br>
>> if the disagreement cannot be resolved in this way, the person may file an appeal with an Appeal Committee appointed by the AFRINIC Board of Directors.
<br>
> <br>
> It is impossible to file an appeal if there is no committee to file it with - and nowhere does this process give the board the right to decide when such a committee is necessary.<br>
> <br>
> Indeed as I have stated in my previous email - the board is conflicted as they have to ratify - and the right of community members to file appeals independent of the board must be respected - and that dictates that there be a sitting committee with whom to
file said appeals<br>
<br>
I don’t see the conflict that you claim. That sentence does not say when the committee needs to be appointed. My interpretation, shared by Afrinic’s legal advisor, is that the committee may be appointed at the time that it becomes necessary.<br>
<br>
One possible process would be: a complainant informs the Baord of intent to file an appeal; the Board appoints an appeal committee; the complainant files an appeal with the appeal committee.<br>
<br>
If you would like the appeal committee to be appointed even when there are no pending appeals, then I suggest that you ask for that, and give reasons. Please make it a discussion about whether or not a standing committee is a good idea, rather than whether
or not the bylaws require it.<br>
<br>
Alan Barrett<br>
<br>
<br>
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