<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 12, 2017, at 02:33 , Tutu Ngcaba <<a href="mailto:pan.afrikhan@gmail.com" class="">pan.afrikhan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">No no no brother Elkins<div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">I am not agree with you.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">so many people condemn such policy other in ripe say it is stinking meaning not good at all.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Only the Icann chairs is saying will support in that ripe video. But he is not aware of challenges like why internet is such reason behind like polical ones which is not technical.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>The ICANN chair didn’t say he would support or oppose the policy from what I could see. He said that ICANN staff was available to assist in moving the policy through the global policy development process and/or to assist in drafting the policy or creating an ICANN policy working group to develop similar policy related to CCTLDs.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>That’s very different from support.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Someone from France even say this bad policy will make government happy and smile when ip address stop coming ..meaning no ip no internet ver good for government which  like to use paper in the old school ways. It means government is happy with such policy for it will give them power and excuse to even make more internet shuts and blackout internet instead of the government being scare.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>For draconian regimes that prefer to block access to the internet by their citizens, such a claim should not be so easily dismissed. There could well be validity to this point of view and it would not surprise me if some governments did embrace the lack of address resources as yet another convenient control mechanism.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">So this message of you saying the bad policy attract many global debate is wrong as the debate is negative not good all as so many people in RIPE meeting asked so many questions whcih the Mrs.Andrew Alston only refuse to answer and keep saying he interested in debate.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>It has attracted debate. I won’t argue the quality of the debate it has attracted, but it has called attention to the issue in question and with this type of issue, gaining attention is almost always good regardless of the type of attention obtained. People are now discussing internet shutdowns as a much more serious issue than before. That is a positive sign of progress on the actual issue.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Unfortunately, the actual issue is out of scope for the PDP. The PDP really is the wrong tool for this job. However, I think that is partially a reflection of the concept that if the only tool you have is a hammer, then every fastener looks like a nail.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Even the zimbawabwe mugabe mentioning very bad publicity for the president who am sure will shut that internet very fast if it causes political problem. even the 1994 mention of people die even if internet is there nothing will happen because it is politics with long history.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>The democratization of communications and communications technologies are not a panacea for solving these problems, but they are a very important element in any workable solution. People cannot solve problems they do not know exist. Without democratized communications capabilities, it is much easier for “governments” to limit the visibility of such problems on the larger world stage.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">In syria the people die, in somalia they die and other places internet is there or not... this is politics not technical stuffs.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>The boundary between politics and technical is not nearly as black and white as you would imply in this statement. As I said in the previous paragraph, internet is not a panacea, but it is an important element in solving these problems.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">So i do not the agree with you at all brother elkins.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>What would you propose as a better alternative to the current open multi-stakeholder process?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto" class="">Best Regards,<br class=""><br class="">Tutu Ngcaba<br class="">Kwazulu Techno Hubs<br class="">South Africa<br class="">    </div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 May 2017 11:43 a.m., "Mark Elkins" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution" class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">
    The PDP allows anyone to submit any ideas and policies, irrespective
    of who they are, where they are from, and what their ideas are, in a
    free exchange of ideas and in the name of freedom of expression and
    freedom of speech.<br class=""><p class="">Some policies are pretty straight forward, make lots of sense and
      should simply be implemented. they don't need lots of discussion -
      more along the lines of - "why didn't I think and suggest that?".</p><p class="">Other policies are simply way out and should be still-born - such
      as the PDP-BIS proposal, which destroys a number of the qualities
      of how the PDP currently runs.<br class="">
    </p><p class="">The "Internet Shutdown" policy has caused discussion around the
      world. This is proof of the multi-stakeholder approach at work
      (its being argued by multiple stakeholders, both for and against).
      The very fact that this policy has engendered so much debate does
      not indicate a problem with the policy, rather, it shows that the
      process works and is resulting in debate and discussion that is
      both constructive and healthy.<br class="">
    </p>
    <br class="">
    <div class="m_-386647369451655759moz-cite-prefix">On 12/05/2017 09:43, Arnaud AMELINA
      wrote:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" class="">
      <div dir="ltr" class="">
        <div class="">
          <div class="">+1 Dear Mirriam and Badru<br class="">
            <br class="">
            Cela sera fixé par notre projet de politique PDP-BIS. <br class="">
            <br class="">
            <span id="m_-386647369451655759gmail-result_box" class="m_-386647369451655759gmail-" lang="en"><span class="">This
                will be fixed by our PDP-BIS policy proposal.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                @Saul, je confirme que cette politique de shutdown est
                inopportune sur le PDP, c'est une véritable perte de
                temps, car d'autres politique ssont sur la table du PDP
                et personne n'a encore réagit par rapport à elles et on
                tourne autour d'une politique dont tout le monde sait
                qu'elle n'aboutira pas, et on nous avance comme argument
                le débat que ça va susciter, c'est comme si on se moque
                de notre communauté de techniciens. Nous ne sommes pas
                Politiciens, laissons cet aspect à ceux qui en ont la
                compétence, pour en débattre, et nous nous serons là en
                appui à leur décision. Dicsutons sur les choes qui
                feront avancer afrinic eet non celles qui lui créeront
                des problèmes. JE voudrais inviter tous les membres de
                cette communauté à se concentrer sur les vrais missions
                d'Afrinic et débatre de son avenir. Merci pour votre
                conmpréhension. <br class="">
                <br class="">
              </span></span><br class="">
            <span id="m_-386647369451655759gmail-result_box" class="m_-386647369451655759gmail-" lang="en"><span class=""><span id="m_-386647369451655759gmail-result_box" class="m_-386647369451655759gmail-" lang="en"><span class="m_-386647369451655759gmail-">@Saul, I confirm that this shutdown
                    policy is inappropriate on the PDP, it is a real
                    waste of time because other policies are on the PDP
                    table and nobody has yet reacted with them and we
                    turn</span> <span class="m_-386647369451655759gmail-">Around
                    to  a policy that everyone knows will not succeed,
                    and we are advanced as an argument the debate that
                    will arouse, it is like we laugh at our community of
                    technicians.</span> <span class="m_-386647369451655759gmail-">We are not
                    Politicians, we leave it to those who have the
                    competence to debate it, and we will be there to
                    support their decision.</span> <span class="">Let us discuss
                    on things that will move AFRINIC forward instead of
                    those that will create problems.</span> <span class="">I
                    would like to invite all members of this community
                    to focus on Afrinic's real missions and to discuss
                    its future.</span> <span class="">Thank you for your
                    understanding.<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                  </span></span></span></span></div>
          <span id="m_-386647369451655759gmail-result_box" class="m_-386647369451655759gmail-" lang="en"><span class=""><span id="m_-386647369451655759gmail-result_box" class="m_-386647369451655759gmail-" lang="en"><span class="">Cordialement.<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                </span></span></span></span></div>
        <span id="m_-386647369451655759gmail-result_box" class="m_-386647369451655759gmail-" lang="en"><span class=""><span id="m_-386647369451655759gmail-result_box" class="m_-386647369451655759gmail-" lang="en"><span class="">Arnaud.<br class="">
              </span></span></span></span></div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
        <div class="gmail_quote">2017-05-12 7:10 GMT+00:00 Saul Stein <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:saul@enetworks.co.za" target="_blank" class="">saul@enetworks.co.za</a>></span>:<br class="">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-ZA" class="">
              <div class="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">Hi,
                  </span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">Please
                    can you explain how this is an abuse of the RPD?</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">We
                    have a serious issue of internet shutdowns on our
                    continent. The impact that it has on education, the
                    economy etc is immeasurable!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">This
                    should be of grace concern to all of us!</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">The
                    authors of the policy have stated numerous times
                    that this is an evolving proposal.</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">The
                    important thing is that it is encouraging global
                    debate on how to resolve this issue. THAT is what
                    this proposal is about – ways to prevent this from
                    happening.</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">Whatever
                    solutions we come up with – but that can only happen
                    with this debate, so I don’t see how it’s a waist!</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">Saul</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                <div class="">
                  <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" lang="EN-US" class=""> Mirriam [mailto:<a href="mailto:mirriamlauren@yahoo.com" target="_blank" class="">mirriamlauren@yahoo.co<wbr class="">m</a>]
                        <br class="">
                        <b class="">Sent:</b> 11 May 2017 08:24 PM<br class="">
                        <b class="">To:</b> Tutu Ngcaba <<a href="mailto:pan.afrikhan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">pan.afrikhan@gmail.com</a>>;
                        Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br class="">
                        <b class="">Cc:</b> General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><wbr class="">>;
                        AfriNIC List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br class="">
                        <b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Community-Discuss]
                        Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at
                        RIPE</span></p>
                  </div>
                </div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                <div class="">
                  <div class="">
                    <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Hi
                          All,</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">I
                          totally agree with what Badru has stated and I
                          really hope the PDP update policy proposal on
                          the table before us can help to improve the
                          Afrinic policy development process and
                          environment notwithstanding quality of work so
                          as to avoid such abuses of the pdp.</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">KR,</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Mirriam</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                  </div>
                  <div id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yahoo_quoted_4758899845" class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="m_-386647369451655759h5">
                        <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">On
                              Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 1:41:29 PM GMT+3,
                              Tutu Ngcaba <<a href="mailto:pan.afrikhan@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">pan.afrikhan@gmail.com</a>>
                              wrote:</span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857" class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Brother
                                  Elkins,</span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div class="">
                              <div class="">
                                <div class="m_-386647369451655759h5">
                                  <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">The
                                        ICANN chairman Steve said some
                                        concern of internet shutdown
                                        will undermine the missions of
                                        Icann and the Afrinic and they
                                        two have the </span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">potential
                                        power to do something in
                                        return. </span><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">The
                                        Afrinic Government Working Group
                                        AFGWG can work with the ICANN to
                                        achieve more mutlistakeholders
                                        talkings and meetings. This is
                                        what needs to be done in return.<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        I ask the AFGWG to do some
                                        taking to the ICANN and they can
                                        meet our governments for
                                        education on economic important
                                        of Internet.</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                    <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Best
                                          Regards,<br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          Tutu Ngcaba<br class="">
                                          Kwazulu Techno Hubs<br class="">
                                          South Africa<br class="">
                                              </span></p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div class="m_-386647369451655759h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">On
                                          10 May 2017 12:53 p.m., "Mark
                                          Elkins" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>>
                                          wrote:</span></p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class="">
                                    <div id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857yqt95330" class="">
                                      <div class="">
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div class="m_-386647369451655759h5"><p class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">I
                                                downloaded the complete
                                                video  from RIPE and
                                                watched it a few times.
                                                I was also watching
                                                live.</span></p><p class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Its
                                                large - but if you can
                                                do, download it and
                                                watch it.</span></p><p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt" class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""><a href="https://ripe74.ripe.net/archive/video/Andrew_Alston-Anti-Shutdown_Policies_-_The_Rationale-20170508-171822.mp4" target="_blank" class="">https://ripe74.ripe.net/archiv
e/video/Andrew_Alston-Anti- Shutdown_Policies_-_The_Ration
                                                  ale-20170508-171822.mp4</a>'</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Then
                                                again, when the Chairman
                                                of ICANN stands up and
                                                says that ICANN can
                                                help. </span></p><p class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">"Hi,
                                                my name is Steve
                                                Crocker, I am Chairman
                                                of ICANN and I'm here to
                                                help you. (Regarding)
                                                take out of the root the
                                                affected ccTLD names"
                                                and he then volunteered
                                                assistance from ICANN
                                                staff - also saying it
                                                would take between two
                                                and five years to get to
                                                a decision whether to
                                                proceed or not.</span></p><p class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">The
                                                current policy concept
                                                does not go that far -
                                                but to me - certainly
                                                suggests that the idea
                                                of punitive actions
                                                against governments is
                                                worth looking at.</span></p><p class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">I
                                                regard it like a nuclear
                                                bomb. When in the hands
                                                of sane people (RIR's
                                                and ICANN), it is a
                                                threat - to persuade bad
                                                actors to have second
                                                thoughts against cutting
                                                people off from access
                                                to the Internet. If
                                                governments choose to
                                                cut people off from
                                                access to the Internet
                                                for political reasons,
                                                to me this is
                                                undermining the core
                                                mission of ICANN and the
                                                RIR's, both of whom have
                                                the potential power to
                                                do something in return.
                                                We need to enable that
                                                power from being simply
                                                a potential to being
                                                ready for use and hope
                                                its never needed to be
                                                used.</span></p>
                                            <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                              <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">On 10/05/2017 11:01,
                                                    Noah wrote:</span></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="">
                                                <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Mmmm on the contrary
                                                      seems like most
                                                      folk on the floor
                                                      disagreed with the
                                                      contraversial
                                                      policy and its
                                                      approach no matter
                                                      how much the
                                                      Arthors seek for
                                                      better ways to
                                                      improve it. </span></p>
                                                  <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Some suggested
                                                        multistake
                                                        holder
                                                        engagement and
                                                        in particular
                                                        Leslie Daigle
                                                        comments on the
                                                        floor are worth
                                                        taking into
                                                        serious
                                                        considerations
                                                        by the way.</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </blockquote><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                            </div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Leslie
                                                Daigle of ISOC agrees
                                                that there is a problem.
                                                She has concerns but
                                                sounded to me more would
                                                like to see something.
                                                She just doesn't want to
                                                see dialogue being
                                                undermined by this
                                                policy.<br class="">
                                                <br class="">
                                                Perhaps talk is not
                                                enough?</span></p>
                                            <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""><br class="">
                                                  <br class="">
                                                  <br class="">
                                                </span></p>
                                              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="">
                                                <div class="">
                                                  <div class="">
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">The best comment in
                                                          my opinion was
                                                          from the Alan
                                                          Durand who
                                                          reminded
                                                          everyone what
                                                          the real core
                                                          mission of the
                                                          RIR community
                                                          is,  and that
                                                          is....</span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </blockquote><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                            </div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">I'd
                                                say he was more worried
                                                about the policy being
                                                used for much more than
                                                it is currently intended
                                                for. (referenced to the
                                                colour of people's hair
                                                as a reason to cut them
                                                off the Internet).<br class="">
                                                <br class="">
                                                <br class="">
                                              </span></p>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="">
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div class="m_-386647369451655759h5">
                                                <div class="">
                                                  <div class="">
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">"To allocate
                                                          resources and
                                                          maintain the
                                                          accuracy of
                                                          the
                                                          database".PERIOD.
                                                          [1]</span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Noah</span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">[1]I have had in the
                                                          past folk
                                                          state
                                                          statements
                                                          like "How some
                                                          ome runs his
                                                          network is
                                                          none of
                                                          anyones
                                                          business and
                                                          in that matter
                                                          policing the
                                                          network is
                                                          none of
                                                          AFRINICs
                                                          business" </span><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""></span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div class="m_-386647369451655759h5">
                                                <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                  <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">On 10 May 2017 10:39
                                                        a.m., "Andrew
                                                        Alston" <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.c
                                                          om</a>>
                                                        wrote:</span></p>
                                                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class="">
                                                      <div class="">
                                                        <div id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857m_-4330836854662846082m_7987969332886343718m_-5977107219240916377compose-container" class="">
                                                          <div class="">
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Thanks Marcus,</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Just some feedback
                                                          for the
                                                          community.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">It's been a great
                                                          experience
                                                          here at RIPE
                                                          and some of
                                                          the ideas
                                                          given and the
                                                          extensive
                                                          discussions
                                                          following the
                                                          presentation
                                                          referred to by
                                                          Marcus have
                                                          been both
                                                          useful and
                                                          informative.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Draft 2 will be
                                                          submitted
                                                          shortly very
                                                          much in line
                                                          with what I
                                                          presented in
                                                          that
                                                          presentation -
                                                          and before the
                                                          7 day deadline
                                                          as per the PDP
                                                          so we can
                                                          discuss on
                                                          that basis.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Following the meeting
                                                          in Nairobi, I
                                                          suspect we
                                                          will then be
                                                          gathering
                                                          still further
                                                          input and
                                                          further drafts
                                                          will follow,
                                                          if there is no
                                                          consensus
                                                          found on the
                                                          floor for the
                                                          draft 2 that
                                                          will be
                                                          submitted.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">I think for myself,
                                                          the most
                                                          important
                                                          thing I have
                                                          seen at RIPE
                                                          so far, is the
                                                          huge
                                                          willingness by
                                                          people from
                                                          every walk of
                                                          life to engage
                                                          in dialog and
                                                          discussion
                                                          over this, and
                                                          it was
                                                          heartening to
                                                          see both my
                                                          own positions
                                                          and the
                                                          positions of
                                                          those I was
                                                          discussing
                                                          with shift as
                                                          explanations
                                                          were given and
                                                          questions were
                                                          asked and
                                                          answered. 
                                                          Since giving
                                                          that
                                                          presentation I
                                                          have barely
                                                          had a minute
                                                          to think as
                                                          people
                                                          approached me
                                                          to talk this
                                                          through - and
                                                          I really hope
                                                          to see such
                                                          engagement in
                                                          Nairobi,
                                                          because it
                                                          truly showed
                                                          the benefit of
                                                          a multi
                                                          stakeholder
                                                          approach where
                                                          open dialog
                                                          and
                                                          communication
                                                          can happen,
                                                          even in the
                                                          absence of
                                                          agreement and
                                                          in the face of
                                                          controversial
                                                          material where
                                                          people hold
                                                          strong and
                                                          emotive views.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">I look forward to the
                                                          discussions on
                                                          the floor of
                                                          the PDP and
                                                          engaging with
                                                          all of you to
                                                          hear your
                                                          thoughts and
                                                          views and
                                                          finding the
                                                          right solution
                                                          to the issue.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Thanks</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Andrew</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">Get <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" target="_blank" class="">Outlook for iOS</a></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">
                                                          <hr align="center" size="2" width="98%" class=""></span></div>
                                                        <div id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857m_-4330836854662846082m_7987969332886343718m_-5977107219240916377divRplyFwdMsg" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
                                                          Marcus K. G.
                                                          Adomey <<a href="mailto:madomey@hotmail.com" target="_blank" class="">madomey@hotmail.com</a>><br class="">
                                                          <b class="">Sent:</b>
                                                          Tuesday, May
                                                          9, 2017
                                                          11:48:42 PM<br class="">
                                                          <b class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>;
                                                          <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
                                                          <b class="">Subject:</b>
[Community-Discuss] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE</span><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span></p>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div class="">
                                                          <div id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857m_-4330836854662846082m_7987969332886343718m_-5977107219240916377divtagdefaultwrapper" class="">
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Dear
                                                          Colleagues.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">You might
                                                          want to see
                                                          the
                                                          presentation
                                                          of the
                                                          controversial
                                                          draft
                                                          anti-shutdown
                                                          policy
                                                          (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)
                                                          at a recent
                                                          RIPE meeting. 
                                                          I found the
                                                          questions/comments
                                                          from the RIPE
                                                          community
                                                          similar to
                                                          that shared by
                                                          many on the
                                                          RPD, mostly
                                                          about the
                                                          inappropriateness
                                                          of such policy
                                                          in our region…
                                                          or any other
                                                          for that
                                                          matter.  Enjoy
                                                          watching it.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="https://ripe74.ripe.net/archives/video/41/" id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857m_-4330836854662846082m_7987969332886343718m_-5977107219240916377LPlnk241737" target="_blank" class="">https://ripe74.ripe.net/archiv es/video/41/</a>  </span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div style="margin-bottom:15.0pt;overflow:auto" id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857m_-4330836854662846082m_7987969332886343718m_-5977107219240916377LPBorder_GT_14943664579210.690471846288192" class="">
                                                          <table class="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024MsoNormalTable" style="width:90.0%;background:white;border-top:dotted #c8c8c8 1.0pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:dotted #c8c8c8 1.0pt;border-right:none" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="90%">
                                                          <tbody class="">
                                                          <tr class="">
                                                          <td style="width:187.5pt;border:none;padding:15.0pt 15.0pt 15.0pt .75pt" valign="top" width="250" class="">
                                                          <div style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;display:table" id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857m_-4330836854662846082m_7987969332886343718m_-5977107219240916377LPImageContainer_14943664579070.15267319087009934" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:15.0pt;background:white"><a href="https://ripe74.ripe.net/archives/video/41/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""><img id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857m_-4330836854662846082m_7987969332886343718m_-5977107219240916377LPThumbnailImageID_14943664579110.32596987863840843" src="https://ripe74.ripe.net/wp-content/themes/fluida-ripe-child/images/fb-image.png" border="0" height="249" width="249" class=""></span></a></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </td>
                                                          <td style="border:none;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;display:table-cell" id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857m_-4330836854662846082m_7987969332886343718m_-5977107219240916377TextCell_14943664579140.04297172411081385" valign="top" class="">
                                                          <div id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857m_-4330836854662846082m_7987969332886343718m_-5977107219240916377LPTitle_14943664579150.012079917877686697" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:15.0pt"><a href="https://ripe74.ripe.net/archives/video/41/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="text-decoration:none" class="">Archives &#8211;
                                                          RIPE 74</span></a></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yiv2708412857m_-4330836854662846082m_7987969332886343718m_-5977107219240916377LPMetadata_14943664579180.790047043554678" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:15.0pt"><a href="http://ripe74.ripe.net/" target="_blank" class="">ripe74.ripe.net</a></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          </tbody>
                                                          </table>
                                                          </div><div class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          <div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Thanks</span></p>
                                                          </div><div class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Marcus</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""><br class="">
______________________________ _________________<br class="">
Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
                                                          <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
                                                          <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mail
man/listinfo/community-discuss</a></span></p>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""><br class="">
                                                    <br class="">
                                                  </span></p>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div class="m_-386647369451655759h5">
                                              <pre class="">______________________________ _________________</pre>
                                              <pre class="">RPD mailing list</pre>
                                              <pre class=""><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a></pre>
                                              <pre class=""><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mail man/listinfo/rpd</a><span style="color:#888888" class=""></span></pre>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </blockquote>
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div class="m_-386647369451655759h5"><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                                            <pre class="">-- </pre>
                                            <pre class="">Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa</pre>
                                            <pre class=""><a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>       Tel: <a href="tel:+27%2012%20807%200590" value="+27128070590" target="_blank" class="">+27.128070590</a>  Cell: <a href="tel:+27%2082%20601%200496" value="+27826010496" target="_blank" class="">+27.826010496</a></pre>
                                            <pre class="">For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" target="_blank" class="">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a></pre>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div class="">
                                      <div class="m_-386647369451655759h5"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""><br class="">
______________________________ _________________<br class="">
                                            Community-Discuss mailing
                                            list<br class="">
                                            <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
                                            <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mail
man/listinfo/community-discuss</a></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div><div class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class="m_-386647369451655759h5">
                          <div id="m_-386647369451655759m_735746420862504024yqt09773" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif" class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
                                Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
                                <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
                                <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mail<wbr class="">man/listinfo/community-discuss</a></span></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br class="">
            ______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
            Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
            <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
            <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mail<wbr class="">man/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br class="">
            <br class="">
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class="">
      </div>
      <br class="">
      <fieldset class="m_-386647369451655759mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br class="">
      <pre class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="m_-386647369451655759moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="m_-386647369451655759moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr class="">mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br class="">
    <pre class="m_-386647369451655759moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
<a class="m_-386647369451655759moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>       Tel: <a href="tel:+27%2012%20807%200590" value="+27128070590" target="_blank" class="">+27.128070590</a>  Cell: <a href="tel:+27%2082%20601%200496" value="+27826010496" target="_blank" class="">+27.826010496</a>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a class="m_-386647369451655759moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>
</pre>
  </div>

<br class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
Community-Discuss mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr class="">mailman/listinfo/community-<wbr class="">discuss</a><br class="">
<br class=""></blockquote></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">Community-Discuss mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" class="">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>