<div dir="auto">Thank.you Andrew. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I really in.accord with some of the statement, because ours decisions to make.thing change, we are not fighting government, we are just trying to set rights and liberty.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">We need a tools and rules to.help.each other to don't abuse on.community resources ( business community, civil society, government). </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Equity , as said Albert Einstein “The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything” </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Let us just take our responsibility.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Best regards</div><div dir="auto">Serge parfait goma</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">Le 13 avr. 2017 8:58 AM, <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:rpd-owner@afrinic.net">rpd-owner@afrinic.net</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown<br>
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" (Andrew Alston)<br>
2. Re: RPD Digest, Vol 127, Issue 59 (Ademola Osindero)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 07:57:20 +0000<br>
From: Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a>><br>
To: Kyle Spencer <<a href="mailto:kyle@stormzero.com">kyle@stormzero.com</a>>, Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
Cc: rpd <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown<br>
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:AMSPR03MB534B6675130A27B2407BEEAEE020@AMSPR03MB534.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com">AMSPR03MB534B6675130A27B2407B<wbr>EEAEE020@AMSPR03MB534.<wbr>eurprd03.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
Firstly - I need to thank each and every one of you for all the discussions so far and I believe that the discussions should continue as we seek a solution.<br>
<br>
As you can see - the opinions on this list are wide and varied - and I do not believe that is a bad thing - it is a complex issue and pass or fail, the policy itself seems to have served as a catalyst for deep discussion which I believe this industry is ready for, and I hope to see these discussions continue in depth on the floor at the PDP.<br>
<br>
Now, let me attempt to address some of the issues raised and the thinking of the authors behind much of this.<br>
<br>
As we stated at the start of the policy - we realize and acknowledge that the measures proposed are draconian. We also debated the issue of revocation of spare - and its perhaps something as I have said multiple times we can look at focusing or targeting more specifically to mitigate the concerns about unintended consequences. What we need is some suggestions on this and some debate on this.<br>
<br>
Then we get to the more fundamental question - what is the RIR's role in all of this. There is a phrase by a guy called Edmund Burke, that says "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". Now, for a long time, we have seen statements go out condemning the shutdowns. It has had little or no effect. We have waited in vain for "someone else" to act and protect the freedoms of the internet - freedoms which have been hard fought and hard won - but still the shutdowns continue.<br>
<br>
Indeed - ISOC Cameroon came out with a statement in support of the shutdowns - in direct contrast to the condemnation of such by ISOC themselves. If I'm correct, we're now 80+ days in, and still we see the targeting of a community through a shutdown. In many cases we have also seen that communications blackouts are used to prevent the world seeing atrocities committed. We can also point to what happens in places where there is little to no ability to get the word out.<br>
<br>
As such, it was the authors feeling, in their own capacities, that it was time to examine the possibility of a new approach. The internet is a core part of our lives, it drives economies, it is critical to the sustainability of any modern country, and an attack on the internet is an attack on the people. So that leaves us contemplating - do we attempt to use the view tools we have to stand up and take a stance and chip away at this issue - or do we turn around and say that it isn't our problem, and someone else must deal with it - in the vague hope that these other entities are not in turn turning around saying that it is someone else's problem in a continuous circle so that nothing gets done and the problem gets deeper and more frequent.<br>
<br>
Speaking for myself, and not for my other co-authors, I have always believed that in life, you cannot solve every problem, and often the solutions and the methods you use are far from perfect, but you cannot wait for a utopian solution, because you will never find it. So you use every tool available to fight for those causes that you believe in, you use the resources you have to affect change where change is necessary. Such is policy in the RIR world, it is one of many potential options.<br>
<br>
As such, yes, I believe strongly that we SHOULD take a stance. I equate this to a man walking down the street and seeing an innocent being attacked. At that point the man has an option, he can keep walking and close his eyes and say, it's not my problem - the police will deal with it, or he can intervene. If he takes the former option, and the police act, that?s great, however, if the police don't show up, then the crime continues and I argue at that point, the individual becomes complicit through his lack of action.<br>
<br>
Having discussed this policy at great length with many many people before we put it out there - the decision was taken to put this out there to stimulate the debate, and to see if we COULD take some action, to raise the question, what IS the role of the RIR's and other internet organisations when it comes to abuses, or should we close our eyes and hope for someone else to deal with it - and are we prepared to acknowledge at that point that through our lack of action we potentially become complicit.<br>
<br>
The authors have no desire to turn off anyone's internet - we have no desire to punish the people - we are aware that what we are proposing is controversial and that it has far reaching ramifications - but try we must - and in our attempts, we are hoping that the community can work with us to find a BETTER solution than the one we propose - that the community can add input, change the wording, if need be rewrite the entire policy from scratch with us - but let us do SOMETHING, rather than turning a blind eye and saying this is someone else's problem. Let us not live in the hypothetical of what if someone else did it, or what if someone else intervened, let us strive for a concrete action and concrete message, in whatever form that action takes.<br>
<br>
These are our thoughts - let the debate continue - both here and on the floor in Nairobi. We welcome the diverse opinions, and we encourage more people to stand up and speak as we work towards the true end goal - the protection of our freedoms and of our speech and of our industry. The protection not only for the ISP's but the consumer on the ground.<br>
<br>
We look forward to reading further discussions and getting further input.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Kyle Spencer [mailto:<a href="mailto:kyle@stormzero.com">kyle@stormzero.com</a>]<br>
Sent: 13 April 2017 10:26<br>
To: Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br>
Cc: rpd <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br>
<br>
"Not really. The Policy is intended to affect the people/departments/decision makers that are actually causing a shutdown to happen.<br>
i.e. - not Universities, Hospitals, Businesses or Joe Public."<br>
<br>
How will this policy make such a distinction in Ethiopia, Eritrea, and Djibouti?<br>
<br>
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 9:38 PM, Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a>> wrote:<br>
> Not really. The Policy is intended to affect the<br>
> people/departments/decision makers that are actually causing a shutdown to happen.<br>
> i.e. - not Universities, Hospitals, Businesses or Joe Public.<br>
><br>
> If the Government were also to suddenly change (Arab Spring style)<br>
> then the ban would also presumably be immediately lifted.<br>
><br>
> After all - what is the point of AFRINIC (whose fundamental role is to<br>
> promote Internet growth and penetration in Africa) servicing<br>
> governments who don't allow the people to have Internet service, or<br>
> who keep switching it off.<br>
><br>
> ps. Can someone point me to an article or two that explains the reason<br>
> why the anglophones have been denied Internet in the Cameroon.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 12/04/2017 20:09, Honest Ornella GANKPA wrote:<br>
><br>
> +1 Maya<br>
><br>
> So in order to stop internet shutdowns by governments, AFRINIC (whose<br>
> fundamental role is to promote Internet growth and penetration in<br>
> Africa), will now further punish the same community it serves by<br>
> shutting down ISP's and alienating the target governments?<br>
><br>
> How does that work? (genuine question)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Honest Ornella GANKPA<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> 2017-04-12 9:46 GMT+01:00 Maye Diop <<a href="mailto:mayediop@gmail.com">mayediop@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
>><br>
>> Dear All,<br>
>> We all accept that this is a big issue and Even if AfGWG does not<br>
>> have any interference with policy, I would like to remind tthat one<br>
>> Objective of the Working Group is To strengthen the collaboration<br>
>> between AFRINIC and African Governments and Regulators to promote<br>
>> sustainable and secure Internet development in Africa.<br>
>> Putting in place a discriminatory policy for Government and privating<br>
>> a country of ressources will neither help to involve more government<br>
>> on AFRINIC activities to help them to better understand nor bring any<br>
>> change if they decided to take decisions to shutdown Internet.<br>
>> I'll vote for a dedicated high worklevel shop to raise this issue at<br>
>> regional level.<br>
>> Best Regards<br>
>><br>
>> 2017-04-12 5:28 GMT+00:00 Vymala <<a href="mailto:vymala@afrinic.net">vymala@afrinic.net</a>>:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hello Barrack<br>
>>><br>
>>> , i would be keen to understand whether the same has gone through<br>
>>> the AFRINIC Government working group as Seun has indicated and<br>
>>> their views on the same,<br>
>>><br>
>>> As you know the Community draft Proposals and Policies and AFRINIC<br>
>>> does not interfere in any case in the process.<br>
>>> In this case the "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)? is<br>
>>> addressing Internet Shutdown and concerns Governments.<br>
>>><br>
>>> There is no policy or proposal that needs to be validated by the<br>
>>> AFRINIC Government Working Group as the AfGWG is a closed and<br>
>>> dedicated forum for Governments, Regulators and LEA?s to discuss on<br>
>>> opportunities and challenges they are facing with regards to the<br>
>>> Internet Development in Africa amongst other.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I hope this clear your question.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Regards<br>
>>> vymala<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 12 Apr 2017, at 6:55 AM, Barrack Otieno<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com">otieno.barrack@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi colleagues,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Interesting proposal, given the role of governments in our<br>
>>> eco-system , i would be keen to understand whether the same has gone<br>
>>> through the AFRINIC Government working group as Seun has indicated<br>
>>> and their views on the same, i think we should endeavour to keep the<br>
>>> Internet on at all costs, any punitive measure that can result in<br>
>>> switching off the Internet or denying users access in any part of the world is not ideal in my humble opinion.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Regards<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Apr 12, 2017 1:52 AM, "Keshwarsingh Nadan" <<a href="mailto:kn@millenium.net.mu">kn@millenium.net.mu</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Moonesawmy<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> >In Section 1 of AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01, it is stated that<br>
>>>> >"these shutdowns have been shown to cause economic damage". Could<br>
>>>> >you please provide some data about the economic damage?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I confine myself within bounds better suited to my own capacity,<br>
>>>> perhaps this could help?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/intenet-shutdo" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.brookings.edu/wp-<wbr>content/uploads/2016/10/<wbr>intenet-shutdo</a><br>
>>>> wns-v-3.pdf<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> >What is the meaning of "direct provable relationships" in Section 13.1?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> It is my belief that you should unsubscribe from this list since<br>
>>>> you were unable to understand the basic meaning of whatever you quoted above.<br>
>>>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>>> RPD mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>> RPD mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>> RPD mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> ---------------------<br>
>> Mme Nd?ye Maimouna DIOP<br>
>> Sp?cialiste ICT4D<br>
>><br>
>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>> RPD mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
> <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: <a href="tel:%2B27.128070590" value="+27128070590">+27.128070590</a> Cell: <a href="tel:%2B27.826010496" value="+27826010496">+27.826010496</a><br>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Cell/WhatsApp/Signal: <a href="tel:%2B256790884905" value="+256790884905">+256790884905</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 02:58:16 -0500<br>
From: Ademola Osindero <<a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 127, Issue 59<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<wbr>CAGapVPhaiwmB8n4j7KJ7hSxgDUYUr<wbr>oj0=pDB=<a href="mailto:sWAH-u4Pj2xLg@mail.gmail.com">sWAH-u4Pj2xLg@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Dear All,<br>
<br>
Afrinic should stay out of politics and focus on delivering concerns around<br>
Internet Addressing. The organisation should not start thinking of using<br>
its position to influence or condemn political stances of any African<br>
Government. When the dusts are clam, it could have a very serious impact on<br>
Afrinic and its perception.<br>
<br>
Political Neutrality should be its key tenet. IP Addressing abuse is what<br>
should concern Afrinic.<br>
<br>
I vehemently oppose any proposal that has an undertone of political<br>
partisanship.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Regards,<br>
Ademola Osindero<br>
<br>
CEO/Consulting Director<br>
Lopworks Limited<br>
29 Ago Palace Way,<br>
Okota, Isolo,<br>
Lagos, Nigeria<br>
<br>
Mob: <a href="tel:%2B234%208058097820" value="+2348058097820">+234 8058097820</a> <//Mob: <a href="tel:%2B234%208058097820" value="+2348058097820">+234 8058097820</a>>, +234 <//+234> 8091291780<br>
<//<a href="tel:%2B234%208091291780" value="+2348091291780">+234 8091291780</a>><br>
Tel: <a href="tel:%2B234%201%203422633" value="+23413422633">+234 1 3422633</a> <//Tel: <a href="tel:%2B234%201%203422633" value="+23413422633">+234 1 3422633</a>><br>
Email: <a href="mailto:ademola@ng.lopworks.com">ademola@ng.lopworks.com</a><br>
Web: <a href="http://www.lopworks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.lopworks.com</a><br>
<br>
On 13 April 2017 at 08:25:02, Iyedi Goma (<a href="mailto:iyedigoma@gmail.com">iyedigoma@gmail.com</a>) wrote:<br>
<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
This internet shutdown is really a serious matter, mostly for does you are<br>
really face once, in my case (congo brazzaville)we face it two time during<br>
presidential election.<br>
The decision was coming directly from the department of interior affairs<br>
and they don't care and believe if they have any occasion that make again,<br>
they will do.<br>
<br>
So let us really analyze the situation, no recommendations will put a kind<br>
of pressure on any African government to didn't shutdown internet.<br>
<br>
The only voice they can.listen is by force<br>
<br>
Then this my question afrinic can be really a tools to bring more pressure<br>
to the government??<br>
And what will be the react of local community???<br>
More them should this permit de development of internet in Africa once is<br>
going to break some relationship??<br>
<br>
I just need more light.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
<br>
Le 13 avr. 2017 8:02 AM, <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>> a ?crit :<br>
<br>
Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:rpd-owner@afrinic.net">rpd-owner@afrinic.net</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown<br>
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" (Timothy Ola Akinfenwa)<br>
2. Re: New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown<br>
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" (Tutu Ngcaba)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:00:27 +0100<br>
From: Timothy Ola Akinfenwa <<a href="mailto:akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng">akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng</a><wbr>><br>
To: Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown<br>
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAL1GxKTuqW34hqeus10J8gq5vXh__9JPV0cenbmJ32%2Bx%2BEgK8g@mail.gmail.com">CAL1GxKTuqW34hqeus10J8gq5vXh_<wbr>_9JPV0cenbmJ32+x+EgK8g@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
+1 Seun, Arsen? and Badru<br>
<br>
?The case of Internet<br>
Shutdown is not only ?sensitive but very serious and should be treated as<br>
such.<br>
<br>
13.1 In the event of an internet shutdown performed at the order of a<br>
government that is either total or partial:<br>
<br>
1. For a period of 12 months following the end of the shutdown ? AFRINIC<br>
will allocate no resources to the government of the country. This also<br>
applies to all government owned entities and entities that have direct<br>
provable relationships with said government.<br>
<br>
<br>
How do you justify the highlighted segment? I'm glad Andrew said the<br>
authors are ready to reword this area to prevent the innocent ones<br>
from suffering for no just cause. My people say that "Government will only<br>
cut the finger(s) that sinned" (literally). There must be a justifiable<br>
reason to paralyze the activities of academic institutions and agencies of<br>
Governments who are individual AFRINIC members just because their<br>
respective Governments ordered an internet shutdown.<br>
<br>
The issues raised by Badru on whether AFRINIC has a mandate to perform this<br>
policing role should also be considered.<br>
<br>
Someone on the list has also asked if a similar policy is already in place<br>
in other regions. We need info on this please, it might just help the<br>
community to move forward in the right direction.<br>
<br>
I also think the "Secret Working Group" may just be available to assist in<br>
this area through dialogue with Governments with intention to shutdown or<br>
after shutting down the internet.<br>
<br>
In all, bringing up a policy with the objective to punish the members of<br>
the AFRINIC community (directly or indirectly) to whom AFRINIC has been<br>
mandated to serve is inappropriate.<br>
<br>
Kind Regards<br>
<br>
On Apr 12, 2017 10:10 AM, "Seun Ojedeji" <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hello,<br>
><br>
> These are government entities(their addresses and contacts will give you a<br>
> hint) and my point is that banning/restricting government entities because<br>
> the presidency gave an order to shutdown the internet isn't appropriate.<br>
> The government itself that gave the order isn't the member, it is her<br>
> entities that are members and those entities did not need to get approval<br>
> of the presidency to acquire their space. Going the proposed route:<br>
><br>
> - Does not promote the open internet me and you are clamouring for.<br>
> - Will not make AFRINIC sustainable in the long run<br>
> - May serve as a distraction to AFRINIC in performing her core function of<br>
> keeping record and administration of IP resource for our region.<br>
> - Takes AFRINIC from being a neutral entity to being more politically<br>
> inclined<br>
> - In the long run, It further breaks the internet than fix it because I<br>
> will then have to resolve to NATing if I can't get access to my space<br>
> anymore<br>
> - It exposes AFRINIC to unnecessary legal suits from those entities which<br>
> AFRINIC has an agreement with, also consider the legal cost that will be<br>
> involved<br>
> - It affects the economy negatively and reduces competition among<br>
> providers.<br>
> - At first it sounds like it will help service providers which are<br>
> privately owned but in the long run it wouldn't because some of the<br>
> providers income can still be traced to those govt entities.<br>
><br>
> Again while the intent is great, a policy at RIR level cannot be the<br>
> solution. So this is not a matter of rewording the policy in a way that is<br>
> acceptable its more that this isn't practical (especially if we want to<br>
> re-word to apply to govt alone because they are not the members) and it is<br>
> unreasonable/unfair if we want to apply it to govt entities.<br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 11:05 PM, Keshwarsingh Nadan <<a href="mailto:kn@millenium.net.mu">kn@millenium.net.mu</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> >Overall, the fact that there is NO member within AFRINIC database called<br>
>> "government" makes this proposal impractical.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> whois -h <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">whois.afrinic.net</a> " -B -T organisation government"<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:<br>
> <a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a> <<a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a>> Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B2348035233535" value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a><br>
**alt<br>
> email: <<a href="http://goog_1872880453" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://goog_1872880453</a>><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng">seun.<wbr>ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
> <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a>>*<br>
><br>
> Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
><br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>pipermail/rpd/attachments/</a><br>
20170413/9320cd0a/attachment-<wbr>0001.html><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 10:02:12 +0300<br>
From: Tutu Ngcaba <<a href="mailto:pan.afrikhan@gmail.com">pan.afrikhan@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: AfriNIC List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown<br>
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CADu9AejwqurSj1FxYN5GhQ3_7q5B2mbXhmHneXKo6pffFcfViA@mail.gmail.com">CADu9AejwqurSj1FxYN5GhQ3_<wbr>7q5B2mbXhmHneXKo6pffFcfViA@<wbr>mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
On 13 Apr 2017 9:33 a.m., "Seun Ojedeji" <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hello again,<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello brother Seun,<br>
<br>
<br>
I have been following this thread but I think I may have been saying things<br>
a little lightly so let me be a little bit frank here. I wonder what<br>
"balance"(as Kris puts it) we are looking for as this isn't just a policy<br>
that should pass in any manner or form! We are here talking about internet<br>
shutdown implications (like Tamon indicated), is anyone really considering<br>
implications for AFRINIC as an organisation, yeah you heard me right.<br>
<br>
<br>
I think some members are just supporting the bad policy proposal without<br>
thinking of the big impact. We have to use wisdom sometimes my brothers.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Imagine this policy passes and then it gets implemented in say Mauritius,<br>
ofcourse AFRINIC will loose her welcome by default (or you think govt that<br>
has the gut to shutdown internet will not retaliate). So we then move to<br>
another country which could also have shutdowns as well. I have no idea why<br>
we think we can discipline or get govt to behave with an RIR policy like<br>
the one being proposed. It's just a fantasy at best; "who made us<br>
lords over the govt" comes to mind easily.<br>
<br>
<br>
I also wonder this is why i ask the motive of the authors of this policy at<br>
this time since internet shuts has been happening in the past but<br>
eventually it is back when politics problem is resolved.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
We are here claiming that by withdrawing/banning IP resource from govt<br>
entities will put them off the internet, well maybe temporarily but I can<br>
assure you that one of those ISP that may add +1 to this policy (including<br>
authors) will provide a solution to the govt, just that it will be a<br>
solution that further breaks the internet<br>
<br>
<br>
This is why i feel the policy proposal does not make sense. Maybe Authors<br>
just get excited because the Afrinic send statements about government<br>
internet shutdown.<br>
<br>
But the ISP which say yet to such polic, that ISP will loose its license<br>
immediately as regulator will punish the ISP and the customers will suffer<br>
internet lose and the economy too as it will lead to unemployment of ISP<br>
people since the ISP which supports this will be anti-government ISP.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Going forward I do not feel what we are even discussing here should<br>
continue<br>
<br>
<br>
Yes i agree as its wastage of the time here already.<br>
<br>
However the substance of the policy which is the shutdown should be an<br>
agenda item to discuss at upcoming AIS.<br>
<br>
<br>
Yes i also agree as the Afrinic has the government working group which the<br>
government people like regulatord can attend workshop and the Afrinic can<br>
also engage them in this hot topic.<br>
<br>
<br>
The following question comes to mind:<br>
What more role can AFRINIC play in fighting against internet shutdowns<br>
(such role should !=policy)<br>
<br>
<br>
I think this is a valid question for the Afrinic to consider during<br>
meetings to come also when the Afrinic goes to the countries they have to<br>
raise the issue.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Tutu Ngcaba<br>
Kwazulu Techno Hubs<br>
South Africa<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>pipermail/rpd/attachments/</a><br>
20170413/8ee2c3f5/attachment.<wbr>html><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of RPD Digest, Vol 127, Issue 58<br>
******************************<wbr>******<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20170413/be4b3171/attachment.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>pipermail/rpd/attachments/<wbr>20170413/be4b3171/attachment.<wbr>html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of RPD Digest, Vol 127, Issue 63<br>
******************************<wbr>******<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>