<div dir="auto">Hello,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This internet shutdown is really a serious matter, mostly for does you are really face once, in my case (congo brazzaville)we face it two time during presidential election.</div><div dir="auto">The decision was coming directly from the department of interior affairs and they don't care and believe if they have any occasion that make again, they will do.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So let us really analyze the situation, no recommendations will put a kind of pressure on any African government to didn't shutdown internet.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The only voice they can.listen is by force</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Then this my question afrinic can be really a tools to bring more pressure to the government??</div><div dir="auto">And what will be the react of local community???</div><div dir="auto">More them should this permit de development of internet in Africa once is going to break some relationship??</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I just need more light.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Best regards</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">Le 13 avr. 2017 8:02 AM, <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown<br>
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" (Timothy Ola Akinfenwa)<br>
2. Re: New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown<br>
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" (Tutu Ngcaba)<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:00:27 +0100<br>
From: Timothy Ola Akinfenwa <<a href="mailto:akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng">akin.akinfenwa@uniosun.edu.ng</a><wbr>><br>
To: Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown<br>
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAL1GxKTuqW34hqeus10J8gq5vXh__9JPV0cenbmJ32%2Bx%2BEgK8g@mail.gmail.com">CAL1GxKTuqW34hqeus10J8gq5vXh_<wbr>_9JPV0cenbmJ32+x+EgK8g@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
+1 Seun, Arsen? and Badru<br>
<br>
?The case of Internet<br>
Shutdown is not only ?sensitive but very serious and should be treated as<br>
such.<br>
<br>
13.1 In the event of an internet shutdown performed at the order of a<br>
government that is either total or partial:<br>
<br>
1. For a period of 12 months following the end of the shutdown ? AFRINIC<br>
will allocate no resources to the government of the country. This also<br>
applies to all government owned entities and entities that have direct<br>
provable relationships with said government.<br>
<br>
<br>
How do you justify the highlighted segment? I'm glad Andrew said the<br>
authors are ready to reword this area to prevent the innocent ones<br>
from suffering for no just cause. My people say that "Government will only<br>
cut the finger(s) that sinned" (literally). There must be a justifiable<br>
reason to paralyze the activities of academic institutions and agencies of<br>
Governments who are individual AFRINIC members just because their<br>
respective Governments ordered an internet shutdown.<br>
<br>
The issues raised by Badru on whether AFRINIC has a mandate to perform this<br>
policing role should also be considered.<br>
<br>
Someone on the list has also asked if a similar policy is already in place<br>
in other regions. We need info on this please, it might just help the<br>
community to move forward in the right direction.<br>
<br>
I also think the "Secret Working Group" may just be available to assist in<br>
this area through dialogue with Governments with intention to shutdown or<br>
after shutting down the internet.<br>
<br>
In all, bringing up a policy with the objective to punish the members of<br>
the AFRINIC community (directly or indirectly) to whom AFRINIC has been<br>
mandated to serve is inappropriate.<br>
<br>
Kind Regards<br>
<br>
On Apr 12, 2017 10:10 AM, "Seun Ojedeji" <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hello,<br>
><br>
> These are government entities(their addresses and contacts will give you a<br>
> hint) and my point is that banning/restricting government entities because<br>
> the presidency gave an order to shutdown the internet isn't appropriate.<br>
> The government itself that gave the order isn't the member, it is her<br>
> entities that are members and those entities did not need to get approval<br>
> of the presidency to acquire their space. Going the proposed route:<br>
><br>
> - Does not promote the open internet me and you are clamouring for.<br>
> - Will not make AFRINIC sustainable in the long run<br>
> - May serve as a distraction to AFRINIC in performing her core function of<br>
> keeping record and administration of IP resource for our region.<br>
> - Takes AFRINIC from being a neutral entity to being more politically<br>
> inclined<br>
> - In the long run, It further breaks the internet than fix it because I<br>
> will then have to resolve to NATing if I can't get access to my space<br>
> anymore<br>
> - It exposes AFRINIC to unnecessary legal suits from those entities which<br>
> AFRINIC has an agreement with, also consider the legal cost that will be<br>
> involved<br>
> - It affects the economy negatively and reduces competition among<br>
> providers.<br>
> - At first it sounds like it will help service providers which are<br>
> privately owned but in the long run it wouldn't because some of the<br>
> providers income can still be traced to those govt entities.<br>
><br>
> Again while the intent is great, a policy at RIR level cannot be the<br>
> solution. So this is not a matter of rewording the policy in a way that is<br>
> acceptable its more that this isn't practical (especially if we want to<br>
> re-word to apply to govt alone because they are not the members) and it is<br>
> unreasonable/unfair if we want to apply it to govt entities.<br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 11:05 PM, Keshwarsingh Nadan <<a href="mailto:kn@millenium.net.mu">kn@millenium.net.mu</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> >Overall, the fact that there is NO member within AFRINIC database called<br>
>> "government" makes this proposal impractical.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> whois -h <a href="http://whois.afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">whois.afrinic.net</a> " -B -T organisation government"<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:<br>
> <a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a> <<a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a>> Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B2348035233535" value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a>**alt<br>
> email: <<a href="http://goog_1872880453" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://goog_1872880453</a>><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng">seun.<wbr>ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
> <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a>>*<br>
><br>
> Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 10:02:12 +0300<br>
From: Tutu Ngcaba <<a href="mailto:pan.afrikhan@gmail.com">pan.afrikhan@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: AfriNIC List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown<br>
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CADu9AejwqurSj1FxYN5GhQ3_7q5B2mbXhmHneXKo6pffFcfViA@mail.gmail.com">CADu9AejwqurSj1FxYN5GhQ3_<wbr>7q5B2mbXhmHneXKo6pffFcfViA@<wbr>mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
On 13 Apr 2017 9:33 a.m., "Seun Ojedeji" <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hello again,<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello brother Seun,<br>
<br>
<br>
I have been following this thread but I think I may have been saying things<br>
a little lightly so let me be a little bit frank here. I wonder what<br>
"balance"(as Kris puts it) we are looking for as this isn't just a policy<br>
that should pass in any manner or form! We are here talking about internet<br>
shutdown implications (like Tamon indicated), is anyone really considering<br>
implications for AFRINIC as an organisation, yeah you heard me right.<br>
<br>
<br>
I think some members are just supporting the bad policy proposal without<br>
thinking of the big impact. We have to use wisdom sometimes my brothers.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Imagine this policy passes and then it gets implemented in say Mauritius,<br>
ofcourse AFRINIC will loose her welcome by default (or you think govt that<br>
has the gut to shutdown internet will not retaliate). So we then move to<br>
another country which could also have shutdowns as well. I have no idea why<br>
we think we can discipline or get govt to behave with an RIR policy like<br>
the one being proposed. It's just a fantasy at best; "who made us<br>
lords over the govt" comes to mind easily.<br>
<br>
<br>
I also wonder this is why i ask the motive of the authors of this policy at<br>
this time since internet shuts has been happening in the past but<br>
eventually it is back when politics problem is resolved.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
We are here claiming that by withdrawing/banning IP resource from govt<br>
entities will put them off the internet, well maybe temporarily but I can<br>
assure you that one of those ISP that may add +1 to this policy (including<br>
authors) will provide a solution to the govt, just that it will be a<br>
solution that further breaks the internet<br>
<br>
<br>
This is why i feel the policy proposal does not make sense. Maybe Authors<br>
just get excited because the Afrinic send statements about government<br>
internet shutdown.<br>
<br>
But the ISP which say yet to such polic, that ISP will loose its license<br>
immediately as regulator will punish the ISP and the customers will suffer<br>
internet lose and the economy too as it will lead to unemployment of ISP<br>
people since the ISP which supports this will be anti-government ISP.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Going forward I do not feel what we are even discussing here should<br>
continue<br>
<br>
<br>
Yes i agree as its wastage of the time here already.<br>
<br>
However the substance of the policy which is the shutdown should be an<br>
agenda item to discuss at upcoming AIS.<br>
<br>
<br>
Yes i also agree as the Afrinic has the government working group which the<br>
government people like regulatord can attend workshop and the Afrinic can<br>
also engage them in this hot topic.<br>
<br>
<br>
The following question comes to mind:<br>
What more role can AFRINIC play in fighting against internet shutdowns<br>
(such role should !=policy)<br>
<br>
<br>
I think this is a valid question for the Afrinic to consider during<br>
meetings to come also when the Afrinic goes to the countries they have to<br>
raise the issue.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Tutu Ngcaba<br>
Kwazulu Techno Hubs<br>
South Africa<br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>