<div dir="auto">Hello Andrew,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I think we should be very very careful not to play on one another's emotions and shoot ourselves in the foot in the process. My earlier text was very very clear about how opposed I am to government interference in the open nature of the internet. What I do not agree with is trying to address this through RIR policy by banning/restricting current and future AFRINIC members related to government. It is just unthinkable/impractical and unfair. Thank god you also confirm that such list can be a long one (which further confirms my initial message).</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">That said, the substansive issue regarding RIR roles towards avoiding/reducing the occurrences of shutdown remains a discussion we should have. I have suggested some points in my previous mail and like I said it should be one of the concerns that AFRINIC takes to govt whenever they have an opportunity to do so. AFGWG is one of such avenue, AFRINIC training team occasionally do serve governmental entities and that may also be an avenue to raise the concern, other avenues includes various government focused events. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Another thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC as an organisation can endeavour to send a formal letter of concern to governments whenever her members formerly notify them of imminent shutdowns. That does not require a policy to achieve as staff can produce a guideline (perhaps in consultation with the community) to receive such complains from members with appropriate triggers inplace to warrant AFRINIC's formal action.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I hope this helps clarify things; i expect significant number of us here feel the same way as you with respect to shutdowns. However there is a proverb that says "if we are to burn a snake in its length we will burn the house as well". We should be very careful what we ask at RIR policy level because in the long run, it would not hurt the government more than AFRINIC members(current and future).</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Overall the solution to this problem should be within each state legislation and policies and I also believe that service providers themselves can indeed play a significant role locally in reducing such occurrences.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Regards</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 12, 2017 4:05 AM, "Andrew Alston" <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Seun,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Firstly, thank you for your comments.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Let me attempt to respond….<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I believe that the fundamental question this policy asks goes actually beyond the issue of shutdowns – it goes to a question that has been lurking in the background for a long time and
I believe the time is now to have that discussion. What role do the community, the I* organizations and other internet structures have when faced with abuse of power by state actors. When do we stop hiding behind our “neutrality” and actually stand up for
what is right and make our voices heard. Do we wait for the silver bullet to solve all our problems, or do we as a community use every tool in our arsenal to chip away at the issue until eventually things change?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Do we stand by while in country branches of other I* organizations stake their claim not against, but in FAVOUR of such actions as has happened recently, while the parent organization is
taking an opposite stance? <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">For myself, and I believe my co-authors, if you see an abuse being committed, and you close your eyes and close your ears and walk on by, saying, its not my problem, I will not step in
here, I will leave it to someone else to deal with. That does not make you neutral – it makes you complicit. When good men refuse to act – evil thrives.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">We talk about engagement and statements – yet year after year after year we see these shutdowns becoming more and more commonplace. As per the report by the centre of technology innovation
at brookings, in 1995 we saw ONE incident of governments interfering with digital communications. By 2010 that number had grown to 111 incidents, and still it grows. It cost the African economies in a year in excess of $355 million USD, that directly hits
the people, and the providers in those countries who are members of the RIR system.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">We can choose to sit on the fence – close our eyes – and say its someone else’s problem and wait for someone, somewhere, to say enough is enough – or we can use every tool in our arsenal
to chip away at the problem until it is finally solved. I believe the latter approach is the right one – however small the action taken, every one counts. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">As regards to there being no organization called government, you will notice that the policy refers to the state and to parastatals – those organizations owned and controlled by government.
There are LARGE numbers of those as AfriNIC members – including the regulators, the incumbent telcos, the utility companies, it’s a long list. So its VERY possible to do this.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">It could also be argued that by shutting down the internet – it verges on a violation of the RSA which says that you may not interfere with the rights of others to use their resources as
assigned – that is a debatable point because of how it is worded – but so be it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">As I said – for me – I choose not to sit on the fence – I choose to say I stand for a free and open internet – and for me and my co-authors – what we believe we have done by putting this
policy out there is to offer the opportunity for this community to make a choice – take a stand for the free and open internet and send a message that what we have been seeing will not be tolerated – or close our eyes and pretend its someone else’s problem,
and pretend that its to dangerous an issue to engage on, and refuse to realize our own capabilities to fight back, and in my personal view, become complicit.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I know where I stand.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Andrew<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, 12 April 2017 at 00:38<br>
<b>To: </b>rpd <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello, <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">While internet shutdown remains what AFRINIC and other I* organisations should speak against, I do not believe that addressing this via an RIR policy is the right nor a practical way to do this.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The policy is simply proposing to ban certain AFRINIC members, even though those members have nothing to do with government's (usually the presidency) decision to shutdown internet. Based on the current wording of the proposal, such members
could include federal/state establishments like institutions, ministries, RENs, federal and state development agencies et all who will perhaps hear the news of the ban just like any other person (and ofcourse may have been unable to do anything even if they
had prior knowledge).<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Overall, the fact that there is NO member within AFRINIC database called "government" makes this proposal impractical. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nevertheless, like I have said earlier, continuous effort needs to be made towards campaigning/educating against shutdowns and<span style="font-family:Helvetica"> perhaps AFRINIC as an organisation can further engage/contribute to respective
governmental policies in the region (cybersecurity policies for instance). </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica">May be something for the AFGWG to consider.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica">Regards</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 11, 2017 19:44, "SamiSalih" <<a href="mailto:sami@ntc.gov.sd" target="_blank">sami@ntc.gov.sd</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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Dear AFRINIC PDWG Members,<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
We have received a new policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br>
<br>
>From the following Authors:<br>
a) Andrew Alston – Liquid Telecommunications - <a href="mailto:andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">
andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a><br>
b) Ben Roberts – Liquid Telecommunications - <a href="mailto:ben.roberts@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">
ben.roberts@liquidtelecom.com</a><br>
c) Fiona Asonga – TESPOK – <a href="mailto:tespok@tespok.co.ke" target="_blank">
tespok@tespok.co.ke</a><br>
<br>
Published in this link<br>
<br>
<a href="https://afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development/policy-proposals/2061-anti-shutdown-01" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/en/<wbr>community/policy-development/<wbr>policy-proposals/2061-anti-<wbr>shutdown-01</a><br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
PDWG Co-chairs<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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