<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122364"><span></span></div><div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122159"><span style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122228">Hi all,</span></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122229"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122230"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122231"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122232">All and all, transfers will happen one way or another, declared as allocation transfers from one LIR to another, the point of this policy, declared as assignments or sub-allocations, that can already be done today so nothing new.</span></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122233"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122234"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122235"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122236">If transfers are not allowed, undeclared transfers will happen, where some organisation may be using large chunk of address space without registering those in the Database, the purpose of the RIR and its associated Database then becomes questionable.</span></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122237"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122238"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122239"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122240">So regulating the transfers through policy is a good idea.</span></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122239"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122733">Out of region transfers will happen as well, no one prevents an AFRINIC member to open up an LIR in the RIPE Region and get a transfer to their membership over there, so rejecting out of region transfer will eventually only hurt the region and finances of the AFRINIC.</span></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122241"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122242"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122243"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122244">You do not have to see all transfers as IPs going from hoarders/harvesters to LIRs in need, those transfers have large financial transactions behind them. </span></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122245"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122246">This in itself is a motivation and people are squeezing and NAT'ing their resources to the max to allow for themselves to free up what is valuable resources and transfer them away, in a sense, they degrade their own network to capitalise on the needs of others.</span></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122247"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122248"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122249"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122250">The bad part as mentioned by others</span>, AFRINIC to AFRINIC transfers are directly in conflict with the RSA where transfers are specifically mentioned as not allowed other than as part of merger and acquisitions.</div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122251"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122252"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122253"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122254">And now for the very bad part, since "inbound out of region transfer policy" was</span> rejected, the transfer market in AFRINIC region will be very different from the rest of the world and potentially even nastier than elsewhere.</div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122255"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122256"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122257"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122258">Without the potential influx of address space from out of region, the whole AFRINIC market will exist on its own, as a bubble detached from the world, allowing the people that are ready and willing to transfer to other members to jack up the prices to whatever level they want!</span></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122257"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122963">As they are the only source of IPv4 address and no external competition can be brought in to lower the prices, I can see the few actors in the market already rubbing their hands at the deals they can make between each other and fixing a minimum prices within this region to ensure maximum profits for their "broker" services.</span></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122259"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122260"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122261">RIRs already function within an almost monopoly system divided by region, now we will enable a cartel to form within the monopoly.</div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122262"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122263"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122264">The possibility of transferring resources into the region would in itself had at least leveled up the prices with current international market rate in IP transfers, without that, everyone is now left to the harsh and maximum monetisation possible of the few that are willing and able to transfer away. <br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122265"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122266"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122267"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122268"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122269">Great for the sellers selling large block to large entities in need of hundreds of thousands of IPs, large entities tend not to care about money too much (purposefully exaggerated statement unless you are google, amazon or similar then it remains true).</span></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122270"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122271">Horrible for smaller organisations that only need a small range like a /22 or even smaller for some business critical infrastructure expansion.</span></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122272"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122273"> </div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122274">Transfers generally already only benefit larger organisations, since transfers also have a large financial cost attached to them, organisations willing to seek a transfer do this out of desperation or too much money and easy way out. </div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122274">But smaller organisation are now priced out even before the transfer market begins, through the fact that only one of the transfer policies was passed through, neither would had been better than just one, both would had been best.</div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122274"><br></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122274">Cheers,<br>David Hilario</div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122275"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122276"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122277"><br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122278"></div><div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 13px;" dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122277"><br></div><div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_120336"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_120335"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_120337">Sent from Yahoo Mail. <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://yho.com/148vdq">Get the app</a></div></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_120870"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_120360" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_120359"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_120358"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_120357"><font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_120356"> On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 11:50 AM, SamiSalih <sami@ntc.gov.sd> wrote:<br></font></div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122142"><div id="yiv4460191625"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122141"><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:14pt;color:#000000;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122140"><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122139">I need just a simple clarification on my below logic<br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_123519"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_123520">1- Part of this region see a need to this policy now<br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_123521">2- other part see we will need it later on (may be next week)<br clear="none"></div><div>3- no one justify any harm to our region if this implemented now<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>so in favor of the people who need this policy now why we are opposing? even if those are just very few organizations.<br clear="none"></div><div> <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv4460191625yqt2496734611" id="yiv4460191625yqtfd37256"><div><b>From: </b>"Maye Diop" <mayediop@gmail.com><br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #1010FF;margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122143"><b>To: </b>"SamiSalih" <sami@ntc.gov.sd><br clear="none"><b>Cc: </b>"Mark Elkins" <mje@posix.co.za>, "rpd" <rpd@afrinic.net><br clear="none"><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, November 29, 2016 11:48:41 AM<br clear="none"><b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Inbound Policy<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Dear Sami,<div>Transition will take time and I did not understand the urge of this proposal.</div><div>Best Regards</div></div><div class="yiv4460191625gmail_extra" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122149"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv4460191625gmail_quote" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122148">2016-11-29 8:38 GMT+00:00 SamiSalih <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sami@ntc.gov.sd" target="_blank" href="mailto:sami@ntc.gov.sd">sami@ntc.gov.sd</a>></span>:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv4460191625gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122153"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122152"><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:14pt;color:#000000;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122151"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122150"><br clear="none"></div><div>Dear Maye Diop,<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Would you please justify your position<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>BR<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><span></span>Dr. Sami Salih | Assistant Professor<br clear="none">Sudan University of Science and Technology<br clear="none">Eastern Dum, P.O Box 11111-407<br clear="none">email: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sami.salih@sustech.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:sami.salih@sustech.edu">sami.salih@sustech.edu</a><br clear="none">Mob: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">+249122045707</a> <span></span><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><hr id="yiv4460191625m_-2834455328488396213zwchr"><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #1010ff;margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122157"><b>From: </b>"Maye Diop" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mayediop@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mayediop@gmail.com">mayediop@gmail.com</a>><span class="yiv4460191625"><br clear="none"><b>To: </b>"Mark Elkins" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a>><br clear="none"><b>Cc: </b>"rpd" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br clear="none"></span><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, November 29, 2016 11:34:14 AM<span class="yiv4460191625"><br clear="none"><b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Inbound Policy<br clear="none"></span><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122156"><div class="yiv4460191625h5" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122155"><div dir="ltr">Dear All,<div>Thanks for authors for this proposal and presentation.<br clear="none"><div>I don't support this proposal policy.</div><div>Best Regards,<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv4460191625gmail_extra" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480931269592_122154"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv4460191625gmail_quote">2016-11-29 8:28 GMT+00:00 Mark Elkins <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a>></span>:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv4460191625gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">I support this policy.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I was quite surprised by people's comments at the microphone - which<br clear="none">
seemed to be more being against the proposed than the policy itself.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Logic should dictate that this policy passes.<br clear="none">
<span class="yiv4460191625m_-2834455328488396213HOEnZb"><span style="color:#888888;">--<br clear="none">
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">+27.128070590</a> Cell: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">+27.826010496</a><br clear="none">
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
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<br clear="none"></blockquote></div><br clear="none"><br clear="all"><div><br clear="none"></div>-- <br clear="none"><div class="yiv4460191625m_-2834455328488396213gmail_signature">---------------------<br clear="none">Mme Ndéye Maimouna DIOP<br clear="none">Spécialiste ICT4D<br clear="none"></div>
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