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<p><span style="color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;">Throwing good money after bad money . Thorough Audits are costly. </span><br>
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Christopher.</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Kevin Kamonye <kevin.kamonye@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 22, 2016 12:53:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Saul Stein<br>
<b>Cc:</b> rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Update to Resources review policy proposal</font>
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It looks likes it is starting to sink in that v6 will eventually mean less relevance for Afrinic and co.</div>
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Kevin</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On 22 November 2016 at 12:07, Saul Stein <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:saul@enetworks.co.za" target="_blank">saul@enetworks.co.za</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Have I perhaps missed the point here, but what is the purpose of this policy?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_-8531531604888165954MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><span>1)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Is the purpose that there is no current way to reclaim resources fraudulently applied for?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_-8531531604888165954MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><span>2)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Preserve v4 space (but this policy would have to be for v6 too – I’d hate to have to audit all that space)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_-8531531604888165954MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><span>3)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">To remove space that people are no longer using?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_-8531531604888165954MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><span>4)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Preserve v4 space?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">It is one thing saying that there is a need to audit, but for what purpose? And by purpose I am including the ultimate goal and objectives, since there is no
point in saying lets audit and then there is no ramifications expect to AFRINIC earning less revenue from the resources it charges for.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Badru Ntege [mailto:<a href="mailto:badru.ntege@nftconsult.com" target="_blank">badru.ntege@<wbr>nftconsult.com</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> 17 November 2016 07:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a>>; Dewole Ajao <<a href="mailto:dewole@forum.org.ng" target="_blank">dewole@forum.org.ng</a>>; sergekbk <<a href="mailto:sergekbk@gmail.com" target="_blank">sergekbk@gmail.com</a>>;
Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" target="_blank">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>>; rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Update to Resources review policy proposal<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On 11/16/16, 1:43 PM, "Andrew Alston" <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">So,</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">I have a hypothetical question – and it will become a lot less hypothetical once I’ve run the numbers which I’m currently doing.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Let’s say we implement this audit policy – and then – because we have to act consistently – we act against every member who is not announcing
space because they cannot justify not announcing it – and we terminate their membership.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Are the authors of this policy and those supporting it prepared to bear the cost of the fee increases that would be necessary to back fill the
loss in revenue that would effectively bankrupt AfriNIC? Running through the preliminary statistics – firstly the auditing process would be immensely expensive in HR cost – secondly – termination of members that aren’t “legitimately” announcing space by rough
calculations could cost AfriNIC in excess of 15% of its revenue by the latest numbers available in the financial reports and correlating the unannounced space that is allocated with the billing file.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I hardly believe that a drop in 15% of revenue would bankrupt AfriNIC ??. If that’s the case then our problems are bigger than an Audit. Which I definitely doubt. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Lets not add scary variables to support opposition to a policy. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Now, some would argue that is all the more reason to implement the audit policy – but here is a wake up call – the space you would recover in
that call on those calculations – amounts to less than 10% of space that AfriNIC has allocated legitimately since May – so effectively, for the gain of looking tough and being rigid, we may end up bankrupting the organisation while recovering potentially a
/15 worth of space. Alternatively, from any logical business perspective – that money would have to be recovered from the members who are legitimately announcing space – because it certainly can’t just disappear.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">So, has anyone ACTUALLY thought through the implications of this policy? I remain firmly opposed.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Andrew</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Dewole Ajao [<a href="mailto:dewole@forum.org.ng" target="_blank">mailto:dewole@forum.org.ng</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> 16 November 2016 12:52<br>
<b>To:</b> sergekbk <<a href="mailto:sergekbk@gmail.com" target="_blank">sergekbk@gmail.com</a>>; Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" target="_blank">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>>; rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>;
General Discussions of AFRINIC <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><wbr>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Community-Discuss] Update to Resources review policy proposal</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">I think all policies (if we really intend to implement them) must be clear and leave no room for variable interpretation as ambiguity will put additional burdens of interpretation on staff.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">If the community's preference is for the 24-month window to become invalid on allocation/assignment of new resources, then the policy (proposal) should state it clearly; If on the other hand, the intention is for the 24-month window to
stay in place come-what-may, it's better for the policy (proposal) to be explicit about it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Please see below, additional questions for the community to consider. Hopefully, they can be discussed and the authors can (if they so choose,) take the inputs from the community into their modified proposal.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">3.3.2 Selected:</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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A member is selected because of an internal report or due to a lack of contact between the AFRINIC and the member.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Q1. Do we presently have an existing (effective) structure (apart from billing) that measures degree of contact with members?
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If there is no agreed means of measuring the degree contact, we need to define degrees of contact so that "lack of contact" (as referred to in the proposal) can be measured objectively.
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<i>Perhaps as a first step for ensuring regular contact without using up too many resources, this proposal might want to borrow a leaf from RIPE's Assisted Registry Check (ARC). See
<a href="https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-management/assisted-registry-check" target="_blank">
https://www.ripe.net/manage-<wbr>ips-and-asns/resource-<wbr>management/assisted-registry-<wbr>check</a></i><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><i><span lang="EN-GB">Basically, the RIR does a consistency check on members' Registry, Resource, and Route/rDNS information and then sends emails to the contacts on file showing their view. They then schedule a telephone call to work with the member and
fix any identified issues. </span></i><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><i><span lang="EN-GB">My understanding from RIPE is that these non-invasive checks sometimes reveal issues that may warrant more detailed investigation. The primary model is by random checks but done in a manner that checks every member at least once in
3 years (given the size of RIPE). They also have ARCs that are initiated as a result of information received from the member or third parties.
</span></i><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB">Q2. Can reachability/cooperation of a member for such a consistency check-and-fix activity as described above be used to measure the degree of contact?<br>
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Q3. Given the fact that time taken for consistency checks are more predictable, can these be implemented as a preliminary step in addressing the "lack of investigation" problem as well as the concern about taking up much of members' and/or AFRINIC hostmasters'
time? <br>
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Regards,<br>
Dewole.<br>
(with apologies for continuing the cross-posting between RPD and Community-discuss)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On 15/11/2016 20:18, sergekbk wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hello Dewole,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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Thanks for this comment.<br>
The limit of 24 months applies to a member based on ressources portfolio. If the portfolio changes with new allocation, member can be audited anytime on the new ressources if required.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Is this clear enough or shall we make it explicit ?<br>
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Kind Regards.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang="EN-GB">Serge Ilunga</span></i></b><span lang="EN-GB">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang="EN-GB">Cell: +243814443160</span></i></b><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang="EN-GB">Skype: sergekbk</span></i></b><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang="EN-GB">R.D.Congo</span></i></b><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">-------- Original message --------<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">From: Dewole Ajao <a href="mailto:dewole@tinitop.com" target="_blank">
<dewole@tinitop.com></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Date: 11/15/2016 11:38 (GMT+01:00) <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">To: Arnaud AMELINA <a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" target="_blank">
<amelnaud@gmail.com></a>, "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy" <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">
<rpd@afrinic.net></a>, General Discussions of AFRINIC <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">
<community-discuss@afrinic.<wbr>net></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Update to Resources review policy proposal
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks for working to apply the community's input to your proposal, Arnaud.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">To test the proposed re-wording, consider the following sequence of events:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Member XYZ initiates self-requested review;<br>
Review is completed by AFRINIC in X weeks;<br>
After review, Member XYZ applies for "large chunk" of number resources;<br>
Member XYZ receives "large chunk" of number resources in say 60 days;<br>
Member XYZ happens to make some unacceptable use of (previous or new) number resources and it somehow becomes known to the community;<br>
Regardless of convincing evidence, Member XYZ cannot be subjected to a review until 24 months have elapsed since the last review.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Is this a design feature or a bug?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Dewole.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On 15/11/2016 10:48, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-GB">Hi community !<br>
Following, recent discussions and in accordance with text proposal from Owen and others contributors, authors propose this as replacement to the section 3.3.3<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">-'---old version---''<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">3.3.3 Reported: Here, members are reviewed either because:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">a. They have requested the review themselves or<br>
b. There has been a community complaint made against them that warrants investigation.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">----new version-----<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">3.3.3 Reported: Here, members are reviewed either because:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">a..They have requested the review themselves or<br>
b. There has been a community complaint made against them that warrants investigation. Complaints shall be backed by evidence and AFRINIC staff shall evaluate the facts as appropriate to conduct the review. However this review is not applicable to a member
on which a full review has been completed in the preceding 24 months.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Regards.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Arnaud. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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