<div dir="ltr">Hello Alain, Seun, @all,<div>My comments inline.</div><div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">Alain Aina</span></b><span lang="EN-GB">: It is obvious that we do have issues here….<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Everyone
remember the co-chairs elections on the fly we had in Pointe-Noire and
Gaborone? After these dramatic scenarios
we heard proposals in the rooms for :<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- having 3
co-chairs<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">=====me<span></span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">It makes
sense to me, to have a third co-chair indeed, that can summarize the differents
views during PDP discussions on mailing list and avoid views/ideas/objections
repetition. While the two other co-chairs will be focussed onto dismissing
flagrant insults and intimidations as well as to propose arrangement on
similar/opposed views.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">====<span></span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">-electing
interim co-chair and give time to elect co-chair following normal process when
last minutes resignation occurred as during these 2 meetings.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">-etc…<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">=====me<span></span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Maybe there
is a need to provide more incentives towards the co-chair role and also a
support material/document to help introduce a new [interim]co-chair.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">====<span></span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">It has also
be brought up the issue of having the two chairs (according to the PDP) and two
co-chairs( according to the common language) disagreeing on the way forward and
the idea of having either :<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- 3 chairs or co-chairs<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- One chair
and co-chair(s). In case of tie or conflict, chair voice prevails. <span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">=====me<span></span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">+1 for one
chair and 2 deputy chairs. The chair role must be focused on ultimate decision
taking. He should not intervene too much, and act after consultations with
deputies to move things forward. The Chair must be well aware of PDP process
and be well respected [in terms of knowledge of PDP and integrity] member of
the community. He need to take in consideration AFRINIC’s history.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">====<span></span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">Seun Ojedeji</span></b><span lang="EN-GB">: I hope the community will work together as
the Co-Chairs help lead the PDP in finding a way forward for various proposals.
I don't think we have attain much of that as a community; we need to keep focus
on actual proposal and not on the proposer and perhaps if that doesn't work
then we may consider approaches that removes the proposer from the flowchart of
PDP as much as possible.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">=====me<span></span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">+1, I suggest
we do remove the proposer(s) when posting a new policy on PDP mailing list. We
shall avoid indeed, personal opinion on people and unjustified (or person
concerned) agreements/disagreements (+1s/-1s) on proposal while encouraging
community global interest.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>====<span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> Thank you!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><br></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">--Abel<span></span></p></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-10-28 5:01 GMT+00:00 Seun Ojedeji <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Hello,</p>
<p dir="ltr">One thing is certain, and that is the fact that there is no absolutely correct way to always gauge consensus and the approaches can vary by proposals. While some may require show of hands in other to inform the Co-Chairs, others may require show of hands in other to confirm what the Co-Chairs have in mind while others may indeed not require show of hands at all. We practice either of the 3 within our region. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Other RIR do actual vote count, we don't do that at AFRINIC but that also doesn't imply it isn't checking consensus. In the long run, whether all the substantial issues on a particular policy has been addressed is what needs to be focused upon.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I hope the community will work together as the Co-Chairs help lead the PDP in finding a way forward for various proposals. I don't think we have attain much of that as a community; we need to keep focus on actual proposal and not on the proposer and perhaps if that doesn't work then we may consider approaches that removes the proposer from the flowchart of PDP as much as possible. Overall, our current PDP is great, our community can be better and that is where I have more concern on.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Regards<span class=""><br>
Sent from my LG G4<br>
Kindly excuse brevity and typos</span></p><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 28 Oct 2016 02:24, <<a href="mailto:sm%2Bafrinic@elandsys.com" target="_blank">sm+afrinic@elandsys.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Owen,<br>
At 16:50 27-10-2016, Owen DeLong wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Well… It is difficult to measure consensus in any way that doesn't at least to some extent look like voting. The main difference between measuring consensus and voting really comes in what you do with the numbers at the end.<br>
Consensus being a lack of sustained opposition and rough consensus being a situation where the opposition has been clearly heard and addressed to the extent practical such that any remaining opposition is a clear minority that cannot be reasonably accommodated, any mechanism to establish whether or not there is support amongst those present is likely to resemble some form of voting, polling, etc.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
It is better not to measure consensus (or vote) as it is possible to fill the room with people who will vote for my draft policy. The opinion(s) of a minority of people cannot be ignored if the decision is to be taken by consensus.<br>
<br>
Consensus in, for example, ICANN has a different interpretation when compared to the way it is done in the IETF. It is also different in RIR venues. A closer look at the different working groups within the IETF would show that there are also differences there.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
S. Moonesamy <br>
<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">Best regards,<br></span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br></span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">--Komi A. Elitcha</span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif"><br></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>