<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Yes i agree we should probably look at it across the board for sure. However, universities could be benefiting more as well if we look at the perspectives and i still believe the universities should lead more of the pack but we need incentives to get those moving as well. Free for everything may not be the solution as we have tried and we see the ongoing discussions.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We need to get to a point where policy is there and enforcement is there behind it and also seek the ways to give v6 for sure but for real use as well. Technically Mark’s idea is good way to approach it and makes some ideological sense, but that’s my sense of it. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So we still keep on the /48 v6 giveaways but not much being used or advertised as such. As much as we want to protect the v4 space we still need to push for the v6 space as well but not in the trash please.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Yes but food for thought. Give free ok how do we support the ongoing new resources to be used?</div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 21, 2016, at 3:43 PM, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" class="">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Hello Mark,<br class=""><br class=""></div>The 50% discount granted institution did not originate via policy so i don't think linking that particular discount to v6 would be appropriate. For avoidance of doubt, i am not against creating incentives for v6 deployment through v4 but i don't think this particular suggestion would be warranted. If we are to create incentives along that line, it should be applied across board. <br class=""><br class=""></div>Regards<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Mark Elkins <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Ouch Andrew...<br class="">
<br class="">
One though I had when reading Kris's email,<br class="">
<br class="">
AFRINIC currently gives a 50% fee reduction to Universities. They could<br class="">
probably link that discount to an expectation - that the University<br class="">
actually has IPv6, routes it and has contactable services dual-stacked<br class="">
with IPv4 address space belonging to the same University - otherwise no<br class="">
discount. Even if their country has poor IPv6 connectivity, a tunnel to<br class="">
HE could sort that out quite simply.<br class="">
<br class="">
No reason for local IXP's not to have IPv6 as well and if you are a<br class="">
University and there is no exchange point - create one - be a Leader.<br class="">
<br class="">
AFRINIC also has some sort of IPv6 tunnel broker.<br class="">
Maybe Liquid could do the same?<br class="">
<br class="">
Universities thus whilst not forced to run IPv6 (dual-stack), would find<br class="">
it financially prudent to do so. Are they not usually considered amongst<br class="">
the Leaders of development in a country?<br class="">
<br class="">
Like I said, just a thought.<br class="">
<br class="">
Mark @ Posix - who has been dual-sacked since February 2007, despite<br class="">
Telkom SA still not commercially providing me native IPv6 access.<br class="">
<span class=""><br class="">
On 21/06/2016 08:45, Andrew Alston wrote:<br class="">
> Ok, as another (only slightly tongue in cheek idea) let's increase the<br class="">
> fees for v4 by 100 percentage and if someone can concretely demonstrate<br class="">
> v6 deployment (beyond just the core and a website, actually to the end<br class="">
> users!) they get a 50 percent discount.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Yes I know fees are not the domain of the RPD list, but the idea may get<br class="">
> people thinking along further tracks, because effectively this properly<br class="">
> incentives v6 deployment rather than just forcing people to have space<br class="">
> they may never use as is the case in the proposals I have seen up till now.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Andrew<br class="">
><br class="">
</span>> Get Outlook for iOS <<a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://aka.ms/o0ukef</a>><br class="">
<span class="">><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:09 AM +0300, "Kris Seeburn"<br class="">
</span><span class="">> <<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" class="">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" class="">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
><br class="">
> Reply inline<br class="">
><br class="">
>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 11:43 AM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">owen@delong.com</a><br class="">
</span><span class="">>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">owen@delong.com</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 18:31 , Kris Seeburn <<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" class="">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a><br class="">
</span><span class="">>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" class="">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br class="">
>>><br class="">
>>> So i just want to push another thought in this pool of ideas going<br class="">
>>> around. I wanted us all to think :<br class="">
>>><br class="">
</span>>>> * One i agree that afrinic cannot and should not impose IPv6 as<br class="">
<span class="">>>> much as it concerns the major LIRs which to me is quite<br class="">
>>> understandable at this stage and am again 50/50 on this. It is<br class="">
>>> like ok giving some v6 resources away which is not being used<br class="">
>>> majorly either since the concentration is still with the v4<br class="">
>>> space. Fair enough, Afrinic in the past had decided to give v6<br class="">
>>> resources for free to help in its growth. So nothing much is<br class="">
>>> happening so far. So am i picking suggestions that we should not<br class="">
>>> give v6 resources away for free?<br class="">
</span>>>> o The other thinking i am having is ok fine perhaps the minimal<br class="">
<div class=""><div class="h5">>>> v6 allocation that comes with the v4 resources is too much<br class="">
>>> anyways - perhaps a very least minimal give away should be<br class="">
>>> /52 or /56 on a general approach for organisations to look at<br class="">
>>> it and perhaps then come back and ask for bigger blocks that<br class="">
>>> can be charged?<br class="">
>>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Please NOOOOOOOOO NOOOO NOOO NOOO NOOO NOOO…<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Please do not encourage this IPv4-thinking with IPv6. Every end site<br class="">
>> should get a /48. More if there’s some reason for it which I find<br class="">
>> somewhat unimaginable, but my imagination is admittedly limited.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> Stop scarcity-thinking and trying to conserve the wrong things in<br class="">
>> IPv6. There are PLENTY of /48s in the first /3. If I’m wrong to the<br class="">
>> extent that we finish off even this first /3 in 50 years, then by all<br class="">
>> means, I will help you write more restrictive policies for the<br class="">
>> remaining 6+ /3s.<br class="">
><br class="">
> I am in full agreement with what you say here whether it is still shared<br class="">
> by all is a bit of a challenge. However much the v6 allocation being<br class="">
> made for free how much is being advertised and used? I’d like to know<br class="">
> that for real. The issue i also have is great loads to give away but<br class="">
> there is also costs to it right? Fine give away give away for free how<br class="">
> long do we sustain it. Afrinic does not have that many members as in<br class="">
> ARIN or RIPE either way. So really i wish i could see some real use of<br class="">
> v6. Allocating without use at the end user makes it dull for me. Then<br class="">
> what is the use. If you followed the threads you would see same<br class="">
> happening. Allocation and usage are two stories right now.<br class="">
><br class="">
> However, i would still want to hear the miracle coming across soon :)<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
>><br class="">
</div></div>>>> o On a different scale as far as Academia/Research is concerned<br class="">
<div class=""><div class="h5">>>> perhaps we should take a different approach with them. Since<br class="">
>>> they are kind of key to research we can take it that v4<br class="">
>>> resources and v6 resources should be allocated differently<br class="">
>>> and dual stacking be requested as part of allocation. People<br class="">
>>> do not get me wrong here. This is the very start of teaching<br class="">
>>> and research which may require further in depth thinking and<br class="">
>>> these institutions as much as paying 50% in general terms<br class="">
>>> should be able to nurture the future of v6 as well. I know in<br class="">
>>> general Academia does not want to be touched and compared<br class="">
>>> differently we need to also see the real essence of facts.<br class="">
>>><br class="">
>><br class="">
>> I admit I’m not sure I understand what exactly you are attempting to<br class="">
>> propose here.<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> What i was trying to say is we could reduce the allocation size for<br class="">
> organisation who do not use v6 and still give the wider chunk to<br class="">
> Academia and research and push that v6 allocated to academia who get 50%<br class="">
> discount anyways should heavily promote v6 as a result. The slashes may<br class="">
> need some revisiting but i’d me more tempted to give them a block that<br class="">
> they would use than give it to someone who does not want it anyways.<br class="">
><br class="">
>><br class="">
>>> Bottomline what is important is also survival of the businesses as<br class="">
>>> much as survival of Afrinic as well. Great policies great but i feel<br class="">
>>> personally that everything needs to be weighted as well to ensure<br class="">
>>> sustained growth in all parts of the organisations in general.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> That sounds great, but can you express it in concrete actions as I’m<br class="">
>> unsure how anyone goes about implementing it in policy or in actions<br class="">
>> on their own networks.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Its not only about policy its also making sure Afrinic can really<br class="">
> sustain itself after softlanding as the figures will go up during the<br class="">
> softlanding as the other RIRs have experienced but at some point it will<br class="">
> just be recurrent revenue that will be straight line for a long time and<br class="">
> the need to ensure that revenue comes from the main business the need to<br class="">
> reflect properly on those is also important. The community has its views<br class="">
> and also to make sure the organisation sustains itself and lives or<br class="">
> outlives us.<br class="">
><br class="">
>><br class="">
>><br class="">
><br class="">
> Kris Seeburn<br class="">
</div></div>> <a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" class="">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" class="">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
><br class="">
> *<br class="">
><br class="">
> <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/</a> <<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/</a>><br class="">
<span class="im HOEnZb">><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> _______________________________________________<br class="">
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><br class="">
<br class="">
</span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">--<br class="">
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br class="">
<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: <a href="tel:%2B27.128070590" value="+27128070590" class="">+27.128070590</a> Cell: <a href="tel:%2B27.826010496" value="+27826010496" class="">+27.826010496</a><br class="">
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br class="">
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<br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""><br clear="all" class=""><br class="">-- <br class=""><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br class=""><font color="#888888" class=""><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif" class="">
<i class=""><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)" class="">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)" class=""></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)" class="">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)" class=""></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)" class="">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br class="">
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)" class=""></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)" class="">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535" class="">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)" class=""></span><br class=""></i><i class=""><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)" class="">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453/" target="_blank" class=""> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank" class="">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br class=""><br class=""><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="">Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!<br class=""></blockquote></blockquote></font><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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