<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 21, 2016, at 07:50 , Kris Seeburn <<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" class="">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">OK let me put it in simple terms of what i still wish people would do.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The first is i do understand that we have loads of v6 to be allocated</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Where is the v6 being used? Still much of the mystery on our continent.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Little mystery, really… Most of it is going unused. A few universities and providers are doing some with IPv6, but for the most part it is still being ignored.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">As the board had decided in the past to give away some freebies to encourage the usage of v6. I am yet convinced so far anything much is happening. So - I come to the analogy of, if i have loads of freebies and initially giving away as a promotion and yet being still trashed away … why do i still need to give so much away still ?</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Well, let’s clarify something… There are three different ways we’ve talked about giving IPv6 away.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>1.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>You must take this free IPv6 in order to get more IPv4.</div><div>2.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Here’s your IPv4, by the way, would you also like some free IPv6 to go with that? (current practice)</div><div>3.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>If you ask for IPv6, we’ll give it to you for free.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>If we’re going to do anything for free, I would advocate that approach 3 is correct and that approaches 1 and 2 may make some statistics look good to some viewers, but in reality all they do is make the statistics artificial and useless.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I am tempted to say and that’s where i am coming from, so if you do not need v6 ok fine, but i still give you a very least chunk and use it if you want and if not trash it as usual but at least that does not mean i have given you a bigger block. It will over time become useful but not readily yet. So no issues i know where you are coming from but i still feel that the free give away may need to be revisited going forward. </div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Since I think that approaches 1 and 2 are fundamentally flawed, I don’t think it matters what size we use with these two fundamentally flawed approaches. Making the size of block smaller won’t improve things, it will just confuse them further. Instead, I think we should shift to approach number 3 and provide whatever size block is appropriate to the requestor. The last thing we want to do here is create a financial incentive to use a smaller IPv6 allocation/assignment than is actually needed. That’s completely counter-productive.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">If it is used then we can probably apply some thinking about discounting but i still feel that just giving away v6 always for free and then people fighting over apply use or enforce is not getting us anywhere close to anything. </div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Agreed.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I am in agreement with the v4 space pool we have is quite a pool we need to use but pushing v6 is on the notes of people and i sincerely want people to at least use it rather than have for free use and just dump it somewhere because hey i got it for free what do i do with it now. So am still not bothered on the allocation size but so many of blocks allocated being useless does not help me think right. </div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>That is why I proposed concrete milestones of IPv6 deployment to allow networks to obtain additional IPv4.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">But i understand your point and no for or against point. In hindsight i give you less because you get it free but if you use it want more pay for it.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>I think this is exactly the kind of thing we want to avoid. While it sounds good from a more typical marketing perspective, the reality is that we do not want to create incentives for ISPs to undersize assignments to end users. We should be encouraging ISPs to give /48s to all customer end-sites regardless of size rather than encouraging them to do silly things like residential /56s, /60s, or worst of all, /64s.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 21, 2016, at 9:07 PM, Leo Vegoda <<a href="mailto:leo.vegoda@icann.org" class="">leo.vegoda@icann.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">Kris Seeburn wrote:<br class=""><br class="">[...]<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">What i was trying to say is we could reduce the allocation size for organisation who <br class="">do not use v6 and still give the wider chunk to Academia and research and push that <br class="">v6 allocated to academia who get 50% discount anyways should heavily promote <br class="">v6 as a result. The slashes may need some revisiting but i’d me more tempted to <br class="">give them a block that they would use than give it to someone who does not want <br class="">it anyways.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">I'm not sure that I full understand what you mean. However, it sounds like you might not realize how much IPv6 space there is. Each RIR has been allocated a /12 and qualifies for an additional /12 when it has used (allocated and/or reserved) half of that space. That's 524,288 minimum allocations or at least tens of thousands of more generous allocations. <br class=""><br class="">But the /12 from which AFRINIC allocates comes from 2000::/3, which contains 512 /12s, of which just six have been allocated or otherwise used. That means there's enough space to support each RIR getting a /12 a year for a century, should that be necessary.<br class=""><br class="">Given the vastness of the IPv6 address space, I do not understand what your objective is when you discuss the possibility of allocating less space to some groups. I can see the value in not registering an IPv6 allocation to a network operator who does not want one. But what advantage does anyone get from having the size of their IPv6 allocation restrained when there is so much IPv6 space available?<br class=""><br class="">Regards,<br class=""><br class="">Leo Vegoda<br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Kris Seeburn</div><div class=""><a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" class="">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a></div><div class=""><ul style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 8px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; list-style: none; line-height: 17px; display: table-cell; width: 504px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=""><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 8px 12px 2px 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-size: 11px; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; font-variant: inherit; line-height: 1.2em;" class=""><dl class="public-profile" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; word-wrap: break-word;"><dd style="margin: 0px; padding: 2px 9px 1px 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: top; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; display: inline-block; zoom: 1;" class=""><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/" title="View public profile" name="webProfileURL" style="margin: 0px 10px 0px 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 19px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: middle; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; display: inline-block; zoom: 1; background-image: url(http://s.c.lnkd.licdn.com/scds/common/u/images/apps/profile/sprite/sprite_profile_top_card_v8.png); background-position: 0px -249px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;" class="">www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/</a></dd></dl></li></ul></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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