<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hello Mark,<br><br></div>The 50% discount granted institution did not originate via policy so i don't think linking that particular discount to v6 would be appropriate. For avoidance of doubt, i am not against creating incentives for v6 deployment through v4 but i don't think this particular suggestion would be warranted. If we are to create incentives along that line, it should be applied across board. <br><br></div>Regards<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Mark Elkins <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Ouch Andrew...<br>
<br>
One though I had when reading Kris's email,<br>
<br>
AFRINIC currently gives a 50% fee reduction to Universities. They could<br>
probably link that discount to an expectation - that the University<br>
actually has IPv6, routes it and has contactable services dual-stacked<br>
with IPv4 address space belonging to the same University - otherwise no<br>
discount. Even if their country has poor IPv6 connectivity, a tunnel to<br>
HE could sort that out quite simply.<br>
<br>
No reason for local IXP's not to have IPv6 as well and if you are a<br>
University and there is no exchange point - create one - be a Leader.<br>
<br>
AFRINIC also has some sort of IPv6 tunnel broker.<br>
Maybe Liquid could do the same?<br>
<br>
Universities thus whilst not forced to run IPv6 (dual-stack), would find<br>
it financially prudent to do so. Are they not usually considered amongst<br>
the Leaders of development in a country?<br>
<br>
Like I said, just a thought.<br>
<br>
Mark @ Posix - who has been dual-sacked since February 2007, despite<br>
Telkom SA still not commercially providing me native IPv6 access.<br>
<span class=""><br>
On 21/06/2016 08:45, Andrew Alston wrote:<br>
> Ok, as another (only slightly tongue in cheek idea) let's increase the<br>
> fees for v4 by 100 percentage and if someone can concretely demonstrate<br>
> v6 deployment (beyond just the core and a website, actually to the end<br>
> users!) they get a 50 percent discount.<br>
><br>
> Yes I know fees are not the domain of the RPD list, but the idea may get<br>
> people thinking along further tracks, because effectively this properly<br>
> incentives v6 deployment rather than just forcing people to have space<br>
> they may never use as is the case in the proposals I have seen up till now.<br>
><br>
> Andrew<br>
><br>
</span>> Get Outlook for iOS <<a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://aka.ms/o0ukef</a>><br>
<span class="">><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:09 AM +0300, "Kris Seeburn"<br>
</span><span class="">> <<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Reply inline<br>
><br>
>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 11:43 AM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a><br>
</span><span class="">>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 18:31 , Kris Seeburn <<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a><br>
</span><span class="">>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> So i just want to push another thought in this pool of ideas going<br>
>>> around. I wanted us all to think :<br>
>>><br>
</span>>>> * One i agree that afrinic cannot and should not impose IPv6 as<br>
<span class="">>>> much as it concerns the major LIRs which to me is quite<br>
>>> understandable at this stage and am again 50/50 on this. It is<br>
>>> like ok giving some v6 resources away which is not being used<br>
>>> majorly either since the concentration is still with the v4<br>
>>> space. Fair enough, Afrinic in the past had decided to give v6<br>
>>> resources for free to help in its growth. So nothing much is<br>
>>> happening so far. So am i picking suggestions that we should not<br>
>>> give v6 resources away for free?<br>
</span>>>> o The other thinking i am having is ok fine perhaps the minimal<br>
<div><div class="h5">>>> v6 allocation that comes with the v4 resources is too much<br>
>>> anyways - perhaps a very least minimal give away should be<br>
>>> /52 or /56 on a general approach for organisations to look at<br>
>>> it and perhaps then come back and ask for bigger blocks that<br>
>>> can be charged?<br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Please NOOOOOOOOO NOOOO NOOO NOOO NOOO NOOO…<br>
>><br>
>> Please do not encourage this IPv4-thinking with IPv6. Every end site<br>
>> should get a /48. More if there’s some reason for it which I find<br>
>> somewhat unimaginable, but my imagination is admittedly limited.<br>
>><br>
>> Stop scarcity-thinking and trying to conserve the wrong things in<br>
>> IPv6. There are PLENTY of /48s in the first /3. If I’m wrong to the<br>
>> extent that we finish off even this first /3 in 50 years, then by all<br>
>> means, I will help you write more restrictive policies for the<br>
>> remaining 6+ /3s.<br>
><br>
> I am in full agreement with what you say here whether it is still shared<br>
> by all is a bit of a challenge. However much the v6 allocation being<br>
> made for free how much is being advertised and used? I’d like to know<br>
> that for real. The issue i also have is great loads to give away but<br>
> there is also costs to it right? Fine give away give away for free how<br>
> long do we sustain it. Afrinic does not have that many members as in<br>
> ARIN or RIPE either way. So really i wish i could see some real use of<br>
> v6. Allocating without use at the end user makes it dull for me. Then<br>
> what is the use. If you followed the threads you would see same<br>
> happening. Allocation and usage are two stories right now.<br>
><br>
> However, i would still want to hear the miracle coming across soon :)<br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
</div></div>>>> o On a different scale as far as Academia/Research is concerned<br>
<div><div class="h5">>>> perhaps we should take a different approach with them. Since<br>
>>> they are kind of key to research we can take it that v4<br>
>>> resources and v6 resources should be allocated differently<br>
>>> and dual stacking be requested as part of allocation. People<br>
>>> do not get me wrong here. This is the very start of teaching<br>
>>> and research which may require further in depth thinking and<br>
>>> these institutions as much as paying 50% in general terms<br>
>>> should be able to nurture the future of v6 as well. I know in<br>
>>> general Academia does not want to be touched and compared<br>
>>> differently we need to also see the real essence of facts.<br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> I admit I’m not sure I understand what exactly you are attempting to<br>
>> propose here.<br>
><br>
><br>
> What i was trying to say is we could reduce the allocation size for<br>
> organisation who do not use v6 and still give the wider chunk to<br>
> Academia and research and push that v6 allocated to academia who get 50%<br>
> discount anyways should heavily promote v6 as a result. The slashes may<br>
> need some revisiting but i’d me more tempted to give them a block that<br>
> they would use than give it to someone who does not want it anyways.<br>
><br>
>><br>
>>> Bottomline what is important is also survival of the businesses as<br>
>>> much as survival of Afrinic as well. Great policies great but i feel<br>
>>> personally that everything needs to be weighted as well to ensure<br>
>>> sustained growth in all parts of the organisations in general.<br>
>><br>
>> That sounds great, but can you express it in concrete actions as I’m<br>
>> unsure how anyone goes about implementing it in policy or in actions<br>
>> on their own networks.<br>
><br>
> Its not only about policy its also making sure Afrinic can really<br>
> sustain itself after softlanding as the figures will go up during the<br>
> softlanding as the other RIRs have experienced but at some point it will<br>
> just be recurrent revenue that will be straight line for a long time and<br>
> the need to ensure that revenue comes from the main business the need to<br>
> reflect properly on those is also important. The community has its views<br>
> and also to make sure the organisation sustains itself and lives or<br>
> outlives us.<br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
> Kris Seeburn<br>
</div></div>> <a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>><br>
><br>
> *<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/</a> <<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/</a>><br>
<span class="im HOEnZb">><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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</span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">--<br>
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: <a href="tel:%2B27.128070590" value="+27128070590">+27.128070590</a> Cell: <a href="tel:%2B27.826010496" value="+27826010496">+27.826010496</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><font color="#888888"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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