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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'><br>i see your point Andrew......<br><br>so what do we do ? <br><br>i think we need to push R&D as fast as possible to resolve these issues.... because we cant expand v4 any more and the internet is growing so fast......<br><br>i hope ISOC (IETF) and IANA (ICANN) are on their toes ..............<br><br>a question .... will privatization of IANA functions accelerate or decelerate R&D in view of v6 challenges ?<br><br>i also hope that the Computer Science Laboratories who invented packet networking and new ones are still doing R&D on IPv6..........<br><br> <br>
<em><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#1f497d">Arbogast Fabian,</font></em><br>
<em><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#1f497d">cell:+255-78-447-8387</font></em><br><br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com<br>To: afabbie@hotmail.com; seun.ojedeji@gmail.com; evelyngeek@gmail.com<br>CC: rpd@afrinic.net<br>Subject: Re: [rpd] Statistics on IPV4 allocation in Africa as of 2016<br>Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:15:25 +0000<br><br>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">Fabian,</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">Sadly, there are MANY such issues right now.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">Let me refer to a few of them.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"><span style="">a.)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">MPLS and V6 are still pretty much a non-starter – to this day I have yet to be able to do Martini or Kompella over pure v6 (LDP6 now exists, but with almost no functionality)</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"><span style="">b.)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">SR may solve the LDP6 issue, but its not implemented in a *<b>vast</b>* array of equipment</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"><span style="">c.)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">If you want to do 6to4 your options are again, highly limited. XR requires very specific line cards, IOS Classic in a LOT of the devices has no support whatsoever and it is supported
in XE, but the XE boxes don’t scale</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"><span style="">d.)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">The security issues around v6 have not been adequately explored – though this is getting better thanks to work done by the likes of Jan Zorz and Fernando and others, but good
luck with proper v6 protection on current firewalls (with a few exceptions)</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"><span style="">e.)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">L7 classification and shaping of v6 is still, sadly, pretty much in its infancy</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">Yes, v6 is coming, but you still need v4 – that’s reality, you build dual stack until the issues are addressed. Would I be worried about this if a transfer market let me gain access to
space from outside when there was no more space in AfriNIC or when I couldn’t apply for blocks big enough to satisfy my needs? No. But since this community resists policy that lets me get space from elsewhere, when space is not available in quantity from
AfriNIC in quantity what are the bigger providers meant to do? Say to their customers “sorry, we can’t connect you, because the space is locked in a pool being unused while others build networks, so you, the consumer, must now suffer with a substandard service
contrived of NAT upon NAT upon NAT”?</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">We can’t have it both ways, lock down the remaining pool while denying a transfer policy. Either a transfer policy comes that lets people transfer space in from outside (at whatever cost),
or let people use what is left in the pool while this is done.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">Andrew</span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black;">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Fabian Jr <afabbie@hotmail.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, 16 June 2016 at 2:57 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com>, Evelyn Namara <evelyngeek@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>rpd List <rpd@afrinic.net><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Statistics on IPV4 allocation in Africa as of 2016</span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">i do agree........and i don't see any danger for any services or service providers who wont get additional v4 space because they will get plenty v6 .....they can simply do dual stacking.... whereby users/devices
and things with v4 (public and/or private) that are currently accessing these services sitting on public v4 will get v6 and continue accessing those services......<br>
<br>
i do feel (optimistic) like this time around v6 will be adopted and deployed at least by 55% of the whole IP network within our region in the coming 10 years.<br>
<br>
UNLESS there is any issues on v6 which wont allow FULL migration...........<br>
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<em><span style="font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D;">Arbogast Fabian,</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#1F497D;">cell:+255-78-447-8387</span></em><br>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">From: seun.ojedeji@gmail.com<br>
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 09:53:29 +0100<br>
To: evelyngeek@gmail.com<br>
CC: rpd@afrinic.net<br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Statistics on IPV4 allocation in Africa as of 2016</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">Hello People,</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">At the moment, the v4 space is less than 0.6 of a /8 before we hit soft-landing. This gives an indication that we are already depleting v4 steadily and significantly even as we speak and deliberate. Once we
hit soft-landing and implementation of the current policy would imply that big providers requiring huge v4 space would naturally embrace v6 since the current soft-landing policy will not meet their needs.
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">Overall, i think the need for the phrase "rapid depletion" may not be so important once we hit final /8 as the focus will start tending towards v6 for major players since they won't be able to get enough v4
resource they require anyway.</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal">Regards</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 9:26 AM, Evelyn Namara <<a href="mailto:evelyngeek@gmail.com" target="_blank">evelyngeek@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">Andrew,</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">It is not guaranteed that if Farmer 3 gets all the fuel he needs he will then supply to all customers of 3, 2, 1. He may have his hidden agendas and supply his own customers and the rest of the customers will
not be fed well.</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">Every farmer knows how they deal with their customers, you can not come in as farmer 3 and know all the needs of my customers.</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="">IPV4 will NOT rot (In summary)</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">The IPv4 may not rot, but the customers at the market will still be going hungry because we’re trying to be fair to the farmers – and people will still starve.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;">Andrew</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;"> </span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black;">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Badru Ntege <<a href="mailto:badru.ntege@nftconsult.com" target="_blank">badru.ntege@nftconsult.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, 16 June 2016 at 10:30 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>>, Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank">noah@neo.co.tz</a>>, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>></span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><br>
<b>Cc: </b>rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Statistics on IPV4 allocation in Africa as of 2016</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;"> :-) I like the introduction of analogys to the thread.</span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Difference here is that the v4 will not rot and that those who have and want more should be encouraged to only get V6 if they want additional resources. </span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">I think this would offer a win-win outcome for all those in the region.</span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Regards</span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">On 6/16/16, 10:20 AM, "Andrew Alston" <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Let me put this another way.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Lets say hypothetically we have 3 farmers, and they all have vegetables to deliver to 3 different markets. The people at the markets are hungry and waiting for the vegetables.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">There is fuel, and hypothetically, it could get all 3 farmers trucks to the market, but only one trip each.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Farmer 1 has a truck – except it has no tyres</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Farmer 2 has a truck - except its battery is dead
</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Farmer 3 has a working truck.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">It’s going to take a month before Farmer 1 and Farmer 2 have their trucks repaired, and the vegetables only last a week before they go bad.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Do we, a.) Say that in the interest of fairness to the farmers, we let Farmer 3 make 1 trip, and then for the next 3 weeks, Farmer 1, 2 and 3 have all their vegetables go bad
while the people at the markets all starve or b.) Do we say, we have one working truck, that can deliver to the markets, he is in a position to feed the people at that market, so, let him have the fuel he needs to do that, so at least some people get fed,
even if Farmer 1 and 2 are disadvantaged?</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">In my view, it’s a clear cut thing, Farmer 1 gets the fuel, because not giving it to him hurts the people far more than giving it to him and letting him deliver every vegetable
he can.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Let those who can use it have it, so long as its used for the advantage of the African community – do not artificially constrain things and hurt everyone just to try and be
“fair”</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Andrew</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;"> </span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black;">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black;">Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank">noah@neo.co.tz</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, 16 June 2016 at 8:36 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>rpd List <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Statistics on IPV4 allocation in Africa as of 2016</span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:black;"><br>
On 16 Jun 2016 03:51, "Owen DeLong" <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
>> On Jun 15, 2016, at 12:33 , Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 15 Jun 2016 22:03, "Owen DeLong" <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Instead, the best thing is for all of us to recognize that IPv4 has become unsustainable and stop depending on its continued availability.<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> We can similarly recognise that Crude Oil fossils and their byproducts Diesel and Petrol [IPv4] are unsustainable a d stop depending on their continued availability.<br>
>><br>
>> We should all go for Solar Energy [IPv6] after all the Sun is so abundant in supply and everyone will have unlimited energy through solar.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Agreed… I have 31 panels on my roof generating approximately 108% of my total electrical needs and feeding the excess back to the power utility in my area. (I use about 1.2kw average consumption and my solar system generates about 6.5kW peak output about
5-6 hours per day during summer).<br>
><br>
> How about you?<br>
></span><br>
<span style="color:black;">Needless to say, am sure you got my point. :-) </span>
<br>
<span style="color:black;">> Owen<br>
></span><br>
<span style="color:black;">Noah</span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;">_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list
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https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> </span></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span class="ecxhoenzb"><span style="color:#888888;">-- </span>
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Evelyn Namara | T: +256 754 440893 | E: <a href="mailto:enamara@riseup.net" target="_blank">
enamara@riseup.net</a> | Twitter: <a href="http://www.twitter.com/enamara" target="_blank">
@enamara</a> | Skype: enamara<br>
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PGP: B94D 3950 38D6 914A E054 D6C5 E82E 0F66 DC01 E30D</span></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><i><span style="font-family:Times;color:#006600;">Seun Ojedeji,<br>
Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br>
web: </span></i><i><span style="font-family:Times;color:#888888;"><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
</span></i><i><span style="font-family:Times;color:#006600;">Mobile: +2348035233535</span></i><i><span style="font-family:Times;color:#888888;"><br>
</span></i><i><span style="font-family:Times;color:#006600;">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank">
</a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><span style="font-family:Times;color:#888888;"></span></p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Times;color:#888888;">Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!</span></p>
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_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD@afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</p>
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