<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Rather than a unidirectional modification as proposed, I would prefer to see a modification which delays the implementation of inter-RIR transfers until the AfriNIC free pool is completely empty.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In this way, you don’t have the asymmetry (which I will argue in the ARIN region should not be considered “compatible”), but you remove the risk which is the primary concern (mining of the AfriNIC free pool for off-continent utilization).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 4, 2015, at 7:23 AM, Barrack Otieno <<a href="mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com" class="">otieno.barrack@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Hello Colleagues,</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I would like to echo Andrews comments and support the Policy (with the</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">amendments he has pointed out.) purely from a forwad thinking</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">perspective</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Regards</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On 11/4/15, Andrew Alston <</span><a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">> wrote:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">I for one support this policy, albeit with some modifications, for the<br class="">following reasons.<br class=""><br class="">A.) As space depletion accelerates in Africa, we will get to a point where a<br class="">transfer policy that allows for transfers WITHIN Africa comes necessary.<br class="">Once the space is depleted a transfer policy will be required to stop the<br class="">transfers happening outside of policy and hence outside of any control of<br class="">AfriNIC. Do not doubt they will happen with or without the policy, the only<br class="">difference is that with the policy, the whois databases and the rest at<br class="">least have a vague potential of being kept accurate<br class="">B.) While there will be a counter argument that space in AfriNIC will still<br class="">take an age to deplete, I point out that policy ratification in AfriNIC<br class="">takes a LONG time as we go through the iterations. (I point to the soft<br class="">landing policy which took YEARS to get ratified)<br class="">C.) I do not think that we should base this on African companies expanding<br class="">outwards, I’d be quite happy with a modification to this policy that<br class="">supported transfer of assets WITHIN the African region between African<br class="">players, and prohibits the transfer of space to companies outside of the<br class="">region. Keep in mind, that as we currently stand, there is no policy<br class="">prohibition on using AfriNIC assigned space off continent (while there is a<br class="">proposal under discussion, this has been rejected twice so far), and hence<br class="">if the receiving entity is African, they can still, provided they can<br class="">adequately justify it, use the space where they need to use it.<br class=""><br class="">I do think that an express prohibition on transfers outside of the region<br class="">(which is NOT the same as a restriction on genuine African entities using<br class="">their space outside the region for their own customers/purposes) may go a<br class="">long way to easing concerns raised so far.<br class=""><br class="">Just my thoughts.<br class=""><br class="">Andrew Alston<br class="">Group Head of IP Strategy<br class="">[<a href="cid:20CB5154-630B-4619-9207-C27E5328FF1A]" class="">cid:20CB5154-630B-4619-9207-C27E5328FF1A]</a><br class="">Sameer business Park, Block A, Mombasa Road. Nairobi, Kenya<br class="">T: +254 205000000 - M: +254 733 2222 04 - E:<br class=""><a href="mailto:andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com" class="">andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com</a><br class=""><br class="">From: Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" class="">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" class="">mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>><br class="">Date: Tuesday, 3 November 2015 at 10:47 AM<br class="">To: rpd <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a><<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" class="">mailto:rpd@afrinic.net</a>>><br class="">Subject: [rpd] New Proposal - "Number Resources Transfer Policy<br class="">(AFPUB-2015-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br class=""><br class="">Dear Members,<br class=""><br class="">We have received a new policy Proposal - "Number Resources Transfer Policy<br class="">(AFPUB-2015-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br class=""><br class="">Number Resources Transfer Policy<br class=""><br class="">ID: AFPUB-2015-GEN-001-DRAFT-01<br class="">Policy Name: Number Resources Transfer Policy<br class="">Submitted: 29 October 2015<br class="">Status: Under Discussion<br class="">Author: Mark Elkins,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a><<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" class="">mailto:mje@posix.co.za</a>>, Posix<br class="">Systems<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">1.0 Summary of the Problem Being Addressed by this Policy Proposal:<br class=""><br class="">AFRINIC is the only Regional Internet Registry without a Transfer policy for<br class="">the movement of numbering resources - both in and out of the Region. APNIC,<br class="">RIPE NCC and ARIN have compatible Transfer Policies, so it would seem wise<br class="">to be compatible with them.<br class=""><br class="">2.0 Summary of How this Proposal Addresses the Problem<br class=""><br class="">The Policy solves the issue of an African organisation using space in<br class="">another Region. This Proposal currently does not attempt to address Legacy<br class="">Resources (IPv4 and ASN's) - that is resources that are in the AFRINIC<br class="">Region and were acquired before ARIN existed. Legacy Resources may be moved<br class="">out of the AFRINIC region and redeployed freely. They may however be subject<br class="">to the receiving RIR's policies.<br class=""><br class="">3.0 Proposal:<br class=""><br class="">3.1 The source entity must be the current rights holder of the IPv4 address<br class="">resources recognized by the RIR responsible for the resources, and not be<br class="">involved in any dispute as to the status of those resources.<br class="">A. Source entities outside of the AFRINIC region must meet any requirements<br class="">defined by the RIR where the source entity holds the registration.<br class="">B. Source entities within the AFRINIC region will not be eligible to receive<br class="">any further IPv4 address allocations or assignments from AFRINIC for a<br class="">period of 12 months after a transfer approval, or until the exhaustion of<br class="">AFRINIC's IPv4 space, whichever occurs first. This restriction is excluded<br class="">if the Resource is transferred to the same business entity operating in a<br class="">different region.<br class="">C. Source entities within the AFRINIC region must not have received a<br class="">transfer, allocation, or assignment of IPv4 number resources from AFRINIC<br class="">for the 12 months prior to the approval of transfer request. This<br class="">restriction excludes Mergers and Acquisitions transfers and Transfers to the<br class="">same business entity in a different region.<br class="">D. The minimum transfer size is a /24.<br class=""><br class="">3.2 - Conditions on recipient of the transfer:<br class=""><br class="">A. The conditions on a recipient outside of the AFRINIC region will be<br class="">defined by the policies of the receiving RIR.<br class="">B. Recipients within the AFRINIC region will be subject to current AFRINIC<br class="">policies and sign an RSA for the resources being received.<br class="">C. Recipients within the AFRINIC region must demonstrate the need for up to<br class="">a 24-month supply of IPv4 address space.<br class="">D. The minimum transfer size is a /24.<br class=""><br class="">4.0 Version History<br class=""><br class="">30 Oct 2015 AFPUB-2015-GEN-001-DRAFT-01 posted<br class=""><br class="">Best Regards<br class="">Relevant Url:<br class="">1. Policy Development process:<br class=""><a href="http://afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development" class="">http://afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development</a><br class="">2. AFRINIC Public policy meeting site:<br class="">https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/<br class="">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br class="">Barry Macharia & Seun Ojedeji<br class="">PDWG Co-Chairs<br class="">Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Barrack O. Otieno</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">+254721325277</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">+254-20-2498789</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Skype: barrack.otieno</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">RPD mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>