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<div>In principle I agree with you Owen with one or two potential caveats.</div>
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<div>I’d say that we can proceed to allow transfers between African Entities now under this policy.</div>
<div>In regards to delaying Inter-RIR transfers until the pool is empty, I would prefer to say until we hit soft landing. There are many cases where companies will need far more space than they can get post soft-landing and inter-rir transfers at this point
should be allowed to happen once the soft landing restrictions kick in.</div>
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<div>Just my 2c.</div>
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<div><b style="font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Andrew Alston</span></b></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Group Head of IP Strategy</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Sameer business Park, Block A, Mombasa Road. Nairobi, Kenya</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">T:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"> +254 205000000 - <b>M</b>: +254 733 2222 04 - <b>E:</b> andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com</span></p>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, 4 November 2015 at 4:06 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Barrack Otieno <<a href="mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com">otieno.barrack@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>>, rpd <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [rpd] New Proposal - "Number Resources Transfer Policy (AFPUB-2015-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br>
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
Rather than a unidirectional modification as proposed, I would prefer to see a modification which delays the implementation of inter-RIR transfers until the AfriNIC free pool is completely empty.
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class="">In this way, you don’t have the asymmetry (which I will argue in the ARIN region should not be considered “compatible”), but you remove the risk which is the primary concern (mining of the AfriNIC free pool for off-continent utilization).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class="">Owen</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Nov 4, 2015, at 7:23 AM, Barrack Otieno <<a href="mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com" class="">otieno.barrack@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Hello
Colleagues,</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I
would like to echo Andrews comments and support the Policy (with the</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">amendments
he has pointed out.) purely from a forwad thinking</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">perspective</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Regards</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On
11/4/15, Andrew Alston <</span><a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">>
wrote:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
I for one support this policy, albeit with some modifications, for the<br class="">
following reasons.<br class="">
<br class="">
A.) As space depletion accelerates in Africa, we will get to a point where a<br class="">
transfer policy that allows for transfers WITHIN Africa comes necessary.<br class="">
Once the space is depleted a transfer policy will be required to stop the<br class="">
transfers happening outside of policy and hence outside of any control of<br class="">
AfriNIC. Do not doubt they will happen with or without the policy, the only<br class="">
difference is that with the policy, the whois databases and the rest at<br class="">
least have a vague potential of being kept accurate<br class="">
B.) While there will be a counter argument that space in AfriNIC will still<br class="">
take an age to deplete, I point out that policy ratification in AfriNIC<br class="">
takes a LONG time as we go through the iterations. (I point to the soft<br class="">
landing policy which took YEARS to get ratified)<br class="">
C.) I do not think that we should base this on African companies expanding<br class="">
outwards, I’d be quite happy with a modification to this policy that<br class="">
supported transfer of assets WITHIN the African region between African<br class="">
players, and prohibits the transfer of space to companies outside of the<br class="">
region. Keep in mind, that as we currently stand, there is no policy<br class="">
prohibition on using AfriNIC assigned space off continent (while there is a<br class="">
proposal under discussion, this has been rejected twice so far), and hence<br class="">
if the receiving entity is African, they can still, provided they can<br class="">
adequately justify it, use the space where they need to use it.<br class="">
<br class="">
I do think that an express prohibition on transfers outside of the region<br class="">
(which is NOT the same as a restriction on genuine African entities using<br class="">
their space outside the region for their own customers/purposes) may go a<br class="">
long way to easing concerns raised so far.<br class="">
<br class="">
Just my thoughts.<br class="">
<br class="">
Andrew Alston<br class="">
Group Head of IP Strategy<br class="">
[<a href="cid:20CB5154-630B-4619-9207-C27E5328FF1A]" class=""></a>cid:20CB5154-630B-4619-9207-C27E5328FF1A]<br class="">
Sameer business Park, Block A, Mombasa Road. Nairobi, Kenya<br class="">
T: +254 205000000 - M: +254 733 2222 04 - E:<br class="">
<a href="mailto:andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com" class="">andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com</a><br class="">
<br class="">
From: Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" class="">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" class="">mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>><br class="">
Date: Tuesday, 3 November 2015 at 10:47 AM<br class="">
To: rpd <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a><<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" class="">mailto:rpd@afrinic.net</a>>><br class="">
Subject: [rpd] New Proposal - "Number Resources Transfer Policy<br class="">
(AFPUB-2015-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br class="">
<br class="">
Dear Members,<br class="">
<br class="">
We have received a new policy Proposal - "Number Resources Transfer Policy<br class="">
(AFPUB-2015-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"<br class="">
<br class="">
Number Resources Transfer Policy<br class="">
<br class="">
ID: AFPUB-2015-GEN-001-DRAFT-01<br class="">
Policy Name: Number Resources Transfer Policy<br class="">
Submitted: 29 October 2015<br class="">
Status: Under Discussion<br class="">
Author: Mark Elkins,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a><<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" class="">mailto:mje@posix.co.za</a>>, Posix<br class="">
Systems<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
1.0 Summary of the Problem Being Addressed by this Policy Proposal:<br class="">
<br class="">
AFRINIC is the only Regional Internet Registry without a Transfer policy for<br class="">
the movement of numbering resources - both in and out of the Region. APNIC,<br class="">
RIPE NCC and ARIN have compatible Transfer Policies, so it would seem wise<br class="">
to be compatible with them.<br class="">
<br class="">
2.0 Summary of How this Proposal Addresses the Problem<br class="">
<br class="">
The Policy solves the issue of an African organisation using space in<br class="">
another Region. This Proposal currently does not attempt to address Legacy<br class="">
Resources (IPv4 and ASN's) - that is resources that are in the AFRINIC<br class="">
Region and were acquired before ARIN existed. Legacy Resources may be moved<br class="">
out of the AFRINIC region and redeployed freely. They may however be subject<br class="">
to the receiving RIR's policies.<br class="">
<br class="">
3.0 Proposal:<br class="">
<br class="">
3.1 The source entity must be the current rights holder of the IPv4 address<br class="">
resources recognized by the RIR responsible for the resources, and not be<br class="">
involved in any dispute as to the status of those resources.<br class="">
A. Source entities outside of the AFRINIC region must meet any requirements<br class="">
defined by the RIR where the source entity holds the registration.<br class="">
B. Source entities within the AFRINIC region will not be eligible to receive<br class="">
any further IPv4 address allocations or assignments from AFRINIC for a<br class="">
period of 12 months after a transfer approval, or until the exhaustion of<br class="">
AFRINIC's IPv4 space, whichever occurs first. This restriction is excluded<br class="">
if the Resource is transferred to the same business entity operating in a<br class="">
different region.<br class="">
C. Source entities within the AFRINIC region must not have received a<br class="">
transfer, allocation, or assignment of IPv4 number resources from AFRINIC<br class="">
for the 12 months prior to the approval of transfer request. This<br class="">
restriction excludes Mergers and Acquisitions transfers and Transfers to the<br class="">
same business entity in a different region.<br class="">
D. The minimum transfer size is a /24.<br class="">
<br class="">
3.2 - Conditions on recipient of the transfer:<br class="">
<br class="">
A. The conditions on a recipient outside of the AFRINIC region will be<br class="">
defined by the policies of the receiving RIR.<br class="">
B. Recipients within the AFRINIC region will be subject to current AFRINIC<br class="">
policies and sign an RSA for the resources being received.<br class="">
C. Recipients within the AFRINIC region must demonstrate the need for up to<br class="">
a 24-month supply of IPv4 address space.<br class="">
D. The minimum transfer size is a /24.<br class="">
<br class="">
4.0 Version History<br class="">
<br class="">
30 Oct 2015 AFPUB-2015-GEN-001-DRAFT-01 posted<br class="">
<br class="">
Best Regards<br class="">
Relevant Url:<br class="">
1. Policy Development process:<br class="">
<a href="http://afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development" class="">http://afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development</a><br class="">
2. AFRINIC Public policy meeting site:<br class="">
<a href="https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/">https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/</a><br class="">
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br class="">
Barry Macharia & Seun Ojedeji<br class="">
PDWG Co-Chairs<br class="">
Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">RPD
mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></div>
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