<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br><div><div>On Jul 20, 2014, at 13:45 , Stephen Wilcox <<a href="mailto:steve.wilcox@ixreach.com">steve.wilcox@ixreach.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 20 July 2014 21:46, Owen DeLong <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">
<div class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">So if a service provider takes action against de-aggregates<br>
(either by blocking them off or charging for them), it puts<br>
them at a disadvantage with their competitors.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>This has always been the case, but so far its not made a difference…</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>1. You don’t actually know that.</div>
<div>2. Are you certain it isn’t the primary reason nobody is doing this (yet)?</div><div><br></div><div>I would argue that it is very likely the the primary reason and thus has, so far, made all the difference.</div></div>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I mean, that providers have always either refused to accept small address blocks (/24 has been the "limit" for many years, before that it was RIR allocation boundaries or classful addressing). Those that reluctantly accept blocks smaller than /24 usually caveat that it won't actually work on the global Internet. This seems to have held back routing of small blocks despite there always been a subset of demand, typically from corporates for routing small blocks.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Route Views contradicts you:</div><div><br></div><div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">route-views>sh ip bgp | inc /2[56789] </div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">*> 1.9.56.0/25 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516 4788 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">*> 1.9.56.128/25 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516 4788 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">*> 1.209.11.240/28 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710 9002 4766 38668 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">*> 4.31.236.64/29 128.223.253.10 0 3582 4600 11537 1 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">* 4.78.192.96/27 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516 12989 26769 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">* 5.44.72.0/25 193.0.0.56 0 3333 51088 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">* 5.44.73.0/25 193.0.0.56 0 3333 51088 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">* 5.45.254.0/25 129.250.0.11 386 0 2914 9002 13238 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">*> 5.254.117.128/25 194.85.102.33 0 3277 39710 9002 39743 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; 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font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">*> 31.172.136.192/27</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">*> 31.172.137.0/25 193.0.0.56 0 3333 1103 15772 24685 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">*> 31.172.137.128/25</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">*> 31.172.141.0/25 193.0.0.56 0 3333 1103 15772 24685 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">*> 31.172.141.128/25</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">* 31.186.234.0/26 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516 3549 15570 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);">* 31.186.234.64/26 202.249.2.86 0 7500 2516 3549 15570 i</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Monaco; color: rgb(0, 231, 0); background-color: rgb(0, 1, 2);"> --More-- </div><div><br></div><div>And that's just the first screen full, which gets us less than 1/5th of the way through the address space. It also doesn't</div><div>include /30-/32 size prefixes as I wasn't that creative with my regex foo.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">
<div>And I'd say that I do know it - there are no /25-32 addresses routable across a majority of the global internet.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>I lack adequate perspective to say for certain that these prefixes are our would be visible on enough routers to comprise "a majority of the global internet" (and so do you or anyone else, in actual fact).<div><br></div><div>My point is that nobody is dropping /24s and I would be pretty surprised to see anyone start doing. I would argue that the primary reason that static situation has persisted is that doing so would put one at a competitive disadvantage. Otherwise, I know for a fact that there are a number of providers that would love to shrink their routing tables by dropping /21-/24 routes, for example. (Or at least several have expressed a desire to do so at one time or another).</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div></body></html>